1
00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:44,070
[Music]

2
00:02:47,990 --> 00:02:45,430
the smoke radio

3
00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:48,000
for the masses headline additional july

4
00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:50,000
8 1947

5
00:02:54,229 --> 00:02:51,760
the army air force's has announced that

6
00:02:55,990 --> 00:02:54,239
a flying bist has been found and is now

7
00:02:58,710 --> 00:02:56,000
in the possession of the army

8
00:03:00,710 --> 00:02:58,720
if the game is rigged change the game

9
00:03:03,830 --> 00:03:00,720
game changer

10
00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:03,840
i occasionally think how quickly our

11
00:03:08,949 --> 00:03:05,920
differences worldwide

12
00:03:09,670 --> 00:03:08,959
would vanish if we were facing an alien

13
00:03:16,149 --> 00:03:09,680
threat

14
00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:18,869
this is fade to black with your host

15
00:03:22,550 --> 00:03:20,080
jimmy church

16
00:03:23,589 --> 00:03:22,560
on the game changer radio network and

17
00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:23,599
kgra

18
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:37,509
i need your help to get to the year 1988

19
00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:39,509
you are listening to fate to flag with

20
00:03:56,470 --> 00:03:54,600
all right good evening fade to black

21
00:03:59,670 --> 00:03:56,480
[Music]

22
00:04:03,429 --> 00:03:59,680
bespoke radio

23
00:04:06,710 --> 00:04:03,439
for the

24
00:04:11,589 --> 00:04:09,190
how you doing today's monday september

25
00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:11,599
21st

26
00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:25,320
[Music]

27
00:04:32,070 --> 00:04:28,000
265 days into the new year only

28
00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:32,080
99 days left we are live from a bunker

29
00:04:36,469 --> 00:04:33,360
somewhere in the middle of beautiful

30
00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:36,479
downtown burbank california

31
00:04:39,510 --> 00:04:38,000
and i would like to welcome everybody

32
00:04:43,189 --> 00:04:39,520
listening all around the world

33
00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:43,199
all across the united states

34
00:04:47,270 --> 00:04:45,120
hither and tiddler to and fro back and

35
00:04:47,990 --> 00:04:47,280
forth up and down east and west north

36
00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:48,000
and south

37
00:04:57,670 --> 00:04:54,230
this is fade to black for kjcr the game

38
00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:57,680
changer network and kgra the planets

39
00:05:03,029 --> 00:05:00,080
i'm yours jimmy church what is cracking

40
00:05:04,530 --> 00:05:03,039
everybody how you doing

41
00:05:06,710 --> 00:05:04,540
how you doing

42
00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:06,720
[Music]

43
00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:10,240
what a great week we have on the show

44
00:05:14,150 --> 00:05:12,960
tonight very special guest ben moss is

45
00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:14,160
here

46
00:05:17,189 --> 00:05:16,000
we're going to talk about his new book i

47
00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:17,199
have read it it

48
00:05:22,469 --> 00:05:21,000
is called well it's about socorro the

49
00:05:26,070 --> 00:05:22,479
1964

50
00:05:28,950 --> 00:05:26,080
new mexico ufo landing okay

51
00:05:29,909 --> 00:05:28,960
that is tonight tomorrow night seth

52
00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:29,919
breedlove

53
00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:33,520
joins the show excited about this

54
00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:36,400
seth breedlove and his new film the

55
00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:37,600
mothman

56
00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:41,280
legacy that is tomorrow night

57
00:05:47,909 --> 00:05:44,479
wednesday night greg housh is here

58
00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:47,919
greg joins us for a full evening

59
00:05:52,230 --> 00:05:51,280
of the singularity artificial

60
00:05:54,070 --> 00:05:52,240
intelligence

61
00:05:55,430 --> 00:05:54,080
oh man what a great week on the show

62
00:05:58,710 --> 00:05:55,440
thursday night

63
00:06:01,590 --> 00:05:58,720
is another fader night with open lines

64
00:06:02,469 --> 00:06:01,600
all night long what a great week on the

65
00:06:04,950 --> 00:06:02,479
show let's uh

66
00:06:06,150 --> 00:06:04,960
get this thing cracking and moving along

67
00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:06,160
tonight

68
00:06:12,469 --> 00:06:10,000
and uh kevin korber i think

69
00:06:14,629 --> 00:06:12,479
i didn't see anything from him tonight i

70
00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:14,639
he may still be in the hospital i hope

71
00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:16,000
he's listening

72
00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:19,120
and uh kevin uh please get well

73
00:06:23,189 --> 00:06:21,520
not hearing from you today uh kind of

74
00:06:26,230 --> 00:06:23,199
bummed me out so kevin tweet

75
00:06:26,710 --> 00:06:26,240
something i know you're listening all

76
00:06:33,270 --> 00:06:26,720
right

77
00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:33,280
posting those screenshots something is

78
00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:36,319
missing so there you go kevin please

79
00:06:41,430 --> 00:06:39,680
get well all right last week we had on

80
00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:41,440
carolyn ford

81
00:06:45,590 --> 00:06:44,000
einstein the crystal skull.com and it

82
00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:45,600
was a great show

83
00:06:49,029 --> 00:06:48,160
and i got so many emails and you know

84
00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:49,039
the post

85
00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:52,160
and things uh and the tweets about

86
00:06:55,830 --> 00:06:55,199
you going out and checking out her site

87
00:06:59,189 --> 00:06:55,840
and

88
00:07:01,830 --> 00:06:59,199
own

89
00:07:02,230 --> 00:07:01,840
and that means a lot and it was a great

90
00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:02,240
show

91
00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:05,520
can go

92
00:07:08,909 --> 00:07:08,160
now go to einstein the crystal skull.com

93
00:07:10,390 --> 00:07:08,919
the links are over at

94
00:07:11,189 --> 00:07:10,400
jimmychurchradio.com you'll see them

95
00:07:14,469 --> 00:07:11,199
right there

96
00:07:16,710 --> 00:07:14,479
click on it and use the promo code jimmy

97
00:07:18,390 --> 00:07:16,720
it's it's that simple you will get 10

98
00:07:22,070 --> 00:07:18,400
off of your crystal skull

99
00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:22,080
order today all right let's uh let's

100
00:07:27,270 --> 00:07:23,840
jump forward let's move ahead

101
00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:27,280
follow me on twitter at j church

102
00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:30,400
radio at j church radio start right

103
00:07:34,150 --> 00:07:30,960
there

104
00:07:35,029 --> 00:07:34,160
everybody knows i'm a big social media

105
00:07:37,589 --> 00:07:35,039
guy

106
00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:37,599
and i try to read all of the tweets you

107
00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:39,599
know it gets pretty active especially

108
00:07:44,309 --> 00:07:40,960
during show time

109
00:07:47,589 --> 00:07:44,319
so you can post to hashtag f2b that is

110
00:07:49,909 --> 00:07:47,599
the sandbox and hashtag f2bq

111
00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:49,919
is fade to black questions you can also

112
00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:51,520
email throughout the show

113
00:07:58,309 --> 00:07:55,440
jimmy jimmychurchradio.com

114
00:07:59,830 --> 00:07:58,319
big night tonight socorro more on that

115
00:08:03,029 --> 00:07:59,840
in just a minute

116
00:08:03,909 --> 00:08:03,039
let's get to the breaking news the

117
00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:03,919
asteroid

118
00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:07,280
report nasa is warning of at least

119
00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:10,720
five close asteroid flybys this week

120
00:08:14,309 --> 00:08:13,039
check this just days after japan space

121
00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:14,319
agency announced

122
00:08:18,629 --> 00:08:16,720
it would be extending its asteroid

123
00:08:22,869 --> 00:08:18,639
hunter mission

124
00:08:25,990 --> 00:08:22,879
tonight that's tonight the 21st

125
00:08:30,309 --> 00:08:26,000
the 10 meter and 16 meter

126
00:08:32,949 --> 00:08:30,319
2020 rq6 and 2020 sj12

127
00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:32,959
both asteroids will shoot past the earth

128
00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:34,240
at distances

129
00:08:39,509 --> 00:08:37,760
of 1.2 and 1.4 million kilometers

130
00:08:42,149 --> 00:08:39,519
respectively

131
00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:42,159
three more near-earth objects are

132
00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:43,680
expected to fly

133
00:08:51,430 --> 00:08:47,200
past us tomorrow first up

134
00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:51,440
is at 50 meters in diameter huge and the

135
00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:52,880
largest of the three

136
00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:56,480
is 2020 rd5 it's going to fly past the

137
00:09:02,550 --> 00:08:59,279
earth at 61 000 miles per

138
00:09:05,350 --> 00:09:02,560
kilometers per hour at a distance of 4

139
00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:05,360
million kilometers then it's asteroid

140
00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:06,160
2020

141
00:09:10,150 --> 00:09:09,200
sm2 measuring just 5.8 meters in

142
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:10,160
diameter

143
00:09:17,430 --> 00:09:13,360
at just 1.2 million kilometers away

144
00:09:21,190 --> 00:09:17,440
last will be the 27 meter 2020 rb6

145
00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:21,200
traveling at 71 000 kilometers per hour

146
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:23,120
set to pass our planet

147
00:09:27,910 --> 00:09:26,160
at a distance of 2.5 million kilometers

148
00:09:31,190 --> 00:09:27,920
all of these asteroids

149
00:09:33,430 --> 00:09:31,200
carry that 20 20 name

150
00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:33,440
which means they were just discovered it

151
00:09:37,509 --> 00:09:34,880
kind of scares me

152
00:09:39,350 --> 00:09:37,519
all right there's our action five

153
00:09:42,710 --> 00:09:39,360
asteroids

154
00:09:44,949 --> 00:09:42,720
between today and tomorrow incredible

155
00:09:47,030 --> 00:09:44,959
all right other breaking news today

156
00:09:50,310 --> 00:09:47,040
pretty cool

157
00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:50,320
thanks to enhanced imaging imaging

158
00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:52,640
analysis techniques researchers have

159
00:09:57,269 --> 00:09:53,680
discovered

160
00:10:01,269 --> 00:09:57,279
that the ice on saturn's moon enceladus

161
00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:01,279
is fresh and regenerates

162
00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:04,160
just a small shift in wavelength from

163
00:10:10,389 --> 00:10:06,160
optical to infrared

164
00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:10,399
reveals glistening fresh ice caps

165
00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:14,240
a team led by rosen robidell of the

166
00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:16,880
university of nantes in france

167
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:19,120
analyzed images captured by the cassini

168
00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:22,320
space probe during 23 close flybys

169
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:24,560
and found that some process keeps

170
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:26,240
regenerating the ice

171
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:29,040
across the lunar surface the team will

172
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,640
apply all that they have learned to an

173
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:32,720
upcoming juice and europa clipper

174
00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:33,600
missions

175
00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:36,079
which will study jupiter's icy moons

176
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:37,279
ganymede and

177
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:40,880
europa crazy regenerating

178
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:44,320
ice where is it coming from

179
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:47,680
all right it was announced today

180
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:51,040
by taiwan's president he is accusing

181
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:54,399
beijing that is as in china

182
00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:57,600
of purposefully inflaming tensions in

183
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:00,720
east asia after chinese warplanes

184
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:03,440
crossed the sensitive median line across

185
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:05,120
the narrow strait that separates the

186
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:05,920
mainland

187
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:08,560
and the self-governing island of taiwan

188
00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:09,120
almost

189
00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:12,320
40 times over friday

190
00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:15,680
and saturday taken together the repeated

191
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,680
incursions which came from multiple

192
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:19,760
directions and involved a combination of

193
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:21,680
sophisticated fighter jets and heavy

194
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:22,640
bombers

195
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:25,519
is without modern president and marks a

196
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:27,040
significant escalation

197
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:30,399
and cross straight tensions according to

198
00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:31,040
taiwan

199
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:33,519
and the united states government reports

200
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:34,800
prior to this

201
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:37,920
weekend beijing's warplanes had only

202
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:38,880
crossed the line

203
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:43,680
intentionally three times since 1999

204
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:47,920
won in march 2019 once in february of

205
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:48,640
this year

206
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:52,160
and again last month in august

207
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:56,079
this weekend 40.

208
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:58,720
remarkable incredible and uh scares the

209
00:12:03,030 --> 00:11:59,839
crap out of me as well

210
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:03,040
now here we go

211
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:06,560
what is up with birds dying and falling

212
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:08,639
from the skies

213
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:12,480
out of the uk about 225 starlings

214
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,079
were discovered with blood in their

215
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:16,399
bodies in a lane on

216
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:19,760
angela c north wales police said

217
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,320
die fit edwards whose partner found the

218
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:24,800
bird said it was as if they dropped

219
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:27,839
down dead from the sky

220
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:30,079
the animal and plant health agency has

221
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:31,279
collected them for testing

222
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,880
and will examine whether they could have

223
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:34,560
been poisoned

224
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:36,320
north wales police said it was

225
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:38,800
investigating the very strange discovery

226
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:41,839
and has appealed for more information

227
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:44,959
and then photos and videos posted online

228
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:45,360
showed

229
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:48,560
a russian street littered with birds

230
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:51,839
that's right the incident happened in

231
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:54,399
a city known for its large nuclear power

232
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,279
plant

233
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,040
according to a post from the page

234
00:13:02,470 --> 00:12:58,959
typical balikovo

235
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:02,480
on the russian social networking site vk

236
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:04,639
residents of the city in the in the

237
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:07,360
saratov region around 1 000 kilometers

238
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:08,800
south of moscow

239
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:12,000
witnessed a road strewn with dozens of

240
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:13,760
dead birds

241
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,519
what is going on incredible

242
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:19,600
let's get this show cracking happy

243
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:22,880
birthday to today the one and only

244
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:27,040
bill murray bill murray today

245
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,680
is 70 years old what is bill murray's

246
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:31,680
best film

247
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:34,320
is it is it did we just stop at

248
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:36,240
caddyshack

249
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:43,519
right groundhog day is excellent too

250
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:46,639
and there are so many others but stripes

251
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,470
i'm going caddyshack

252
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:56,959
[Laughter]

253
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:00,880
stephen king today is 73.

254
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:04,560
where do we go with stephen i'm a ah man

255
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,360
uh where do we go with i have no idea

256
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,279
what his best work is

257
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,760
i don't too much good stuff out there

258
00:14:16,750 --> 00:14:13,199
stephen king

259
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:16,760
is 73

260
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:20,480
ex-oasis front man liam gallagher

261
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:24,399
today is 48 years old and also

262
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:27,720
check this pretty incredible eagles

263
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:31,519
ex-guitarist don felder today

264
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,519
is 73. our dead guy's birthday today is

265
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:37,199
moment of silence please

266
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:41,360
leonard cohen 1934 to 2016 died at the

267
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:42,399
age of 82

268
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:46,800
canadian singer of course songwriter

269
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:49,199
poet novelist his work explored religion

270
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:51,120
politics isolation depression

271
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,639
sexuality loss death and romantic

272
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:57,040
relationships he was inducted into the

273
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,000
canadian music hall

274
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,240
of fame the canadian songwriters hall of

275
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,120
fame and the rock and roll hall of fame

276
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:05,600
he was invested as a companion of the

277
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,399
order of

278
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:09,120
canada the nation's highest civilian

279
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:09,760
honor

280
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:13,680
in 2011 cohn received one of the prince

281
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:14,079
of

282
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:17,199
asturias awards for literature and the

283
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:17,680
ninth

284
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,199
glenn gold prize cohen's most famous

285
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,279
song of course hallelujah

286
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,920
was first released on his studio album

287
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:27,680
various positions

288
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:32,480
in 1984. leonard died on november 7 2016

289
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:34,320
at the age of 82 at his home in los

290
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:35,120
angeles

291
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,759
leukemia was a contributing cause

292
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,600
according to his manager

293
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,000
his death was the result of a fall at

294
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:44,639
his home on the night of november 7th

295
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,759
and then he died in his sleep happy

296
00:15:52,829 --> 00:15:48,959
birthday

297
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:52,839
leonard cohen on this day in history

298
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:56,320
otd 1942

299
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,440
the b-29 super fortress makes its debut

300
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:01,920
flight in seattle washington

301
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:04,480
it was the largest bomber used in the

302
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:05,120
war

303
00:16:11,749 --> 00:16:08,800
by any nation and here's your fader fact

304
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,759
man this is turning into my favorite

305
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:13,839
part of the show each night

306
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:16,880
i swear fader fact

307
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:21,040
and this was vetted india

308
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:24,399
and pakistan have deputized

309
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:27,680
their diplomats to ring the other

310
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:28,480
country's

311
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:32,240
embassy's doorbell and run away

312
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:37,759
in the middle of the night

313
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:41,680
oh man and that is your vetted

314
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:48,790
tonight very special guest ben moss is

315
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,639
here what a great guy

316
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:52,560
a great researcher we're going to be

317
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:54,560
talk talking about his new book about

318
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:58,240
the 1964 socorro new mexico ufo landing

319
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,440
with lonnie zamora tomorrow night seth

320
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:03,680
breedlove joins us to announce his new

321
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:04,480
film

322
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,679
the mothman legacy wednesday night greg

323
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:08,880
house is back

324
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,600
he's joining us for a full evening of

325
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:13,439
artificial intelligence

326
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:16,079
and singularity thursday night is

327
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:17,520
another fader night

328
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:20,799
with open lines all night long

329
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:23,839
isn't our definition of ice frozen water

330
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:27,600
i i don't know is it is it

331
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:32,240
can't is ice only frozen water

332
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:37,280
no what about dry ice

333
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:41,200
right i'm just saying

334
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:44,240
there's other forms of ice there's ice

335
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:46,000
out there that you wouldn't put in your

336
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:48,799
drink to chill it that's from mark

337
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:49,760
tarana

338
00:17:53,919 --> 00:17:57,510
i'm just saying

339
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,710
oh man what about bob as

340
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,559
one of bill murray's finest yeah it was

341
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:04,480
pretty good film too

342
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:08,160
that was a pretty good back off man i'm

343
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:09,760
a scientist i know right

344
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,840
ghostbusters right that's up there too

345
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:15,600
that uh there's kevin

346
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:17,919
still here and listening jimmy all right

347
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:18,880
kevin did

348
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,960
check in seven seconds ago

349
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:25,120
there you go i feel better kevin at

350
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,080
least you can

351
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:28,720
still text on your cell phone that's a

352
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:29,919
good sign

353
00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:31,840
that's positive are you using both

354
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:32,670
thumbs

355
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:33,840
[Laughter]

356
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,440
or is that voice to text yeah

357
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:39,840
yeah the world wants to know all right

358
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:41,520
kevin that's good news thank you so much

359
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:42,080
man

360
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,360
i'm going to uh like that tweet

361
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,240
right now all right let me hit this

362
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,480
river moon coffee

363
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:52,480
the best coffee in the world fade to

364
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:01,830
the best um

365
00:19:08,830 --> 00:19:05,600
before i go off on my rant

366
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:08,840
i want to uh i want to say something

367
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:10,480
about

368
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:13,679
upgrading your computer

369
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,549
okay just let me say this a couple of

370
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,440
years ago one of my computers went down

371
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:25,919
and it was a secondary computer it was

372
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:26,960
the one

373
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,160
that i used just for uh phone calls and

374
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:31,919
bringing on guests that's all it's used

375
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,720
for

376
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,880
and some audio editing and there's a

377
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,480
reason why it happens on

378
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,880
a separate computer it's audio feeds and

379
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:40,000
everything else

380
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:43,039
um here on this show because of the

381
00:19:45,230 --> 00:19:44,799
phone lines the phone lines are brought

382
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:45,240
in

383
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:48,799
control

384
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,880
over the independent phone lines right

385
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:52,240
and on on different

386
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:55,120
faders and and eqs and things and you

387
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,640
want to be able to mute and bring stuff

388
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:58,320
on there's reasons for that

389
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:01,600
well my computer that i just use

390
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:04,640
uh which stays on the screen over here

391
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:07,919
and that computer it finally just

392
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:10,720
went down and it actually was the hard

393
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:11,520
drive

394
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,120
so i thought to myself okay you know

395
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:15,440
what i just

396
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,799
use it for simple stuff so i go to fry's

397
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:20,640
and i said you know i just see i need

398
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:22,400
something with a decent processor on it

399
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:23,200
but i'm not

400
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,600
concerned about memory space i use

401
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,360
external drives on it

402
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,760
um i just need you know a functional

403
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,760
sound card i'm just using it for phones

404
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:33,440
and it's not that big of a deal so

405
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:36,880
i bought a new hp hewlett packard and

406
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:39,840
uh it was an i5 and i didn't really look

407
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:41,840
too closely at it but that particular

408
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:43,120
computer

409
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:46,799
had a a 500 gig hard drive

410
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,559
and four gigabytes of ram windows 10

411
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,400
i'm not really even thinking about what

412
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:53,760
i'm doing so

413
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,320
but bring it back to the bunker plug it

414
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:58,240
in it works it's fine i get it

415
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,039
configured

416
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:01,520
done i'm off to the races but from the

417
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:02,799
very beginning

418
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:04,400
now there's a reason for this madness

419
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,600
and i'm going to get to it in a second

420
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:07,840
but from the very beginning

421
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:10,880
it was just slow

422
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:14,880
and i couldn't

423
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,080
uh i couldn't get a hold of it just

424
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:20,400
couldn't get a hold of could not

425
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:22,080
you know i'm not doing anything with the

426
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,919
computer and i'm trying to get these

427
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:25,679
edits done and

428
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:29,520
and things and it was just

429
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,480
opening up and trying to run two things

430
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:34,159
at the same time which is

431
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,440
common right run ten things at a time

432
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:40,159
ah finally this weekend i was done it

433
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:41,280
was like thursday

434
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:42,960
and i rolled into friday i'm like i'm

435
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,600
done i am i just i'm gonna buy a new

436
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:46,960
computer

437
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:50,080
so i started exploring that

438
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,440
and then i called my computer guy and i

439
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:55,760
almost just bought a a new computer

440
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,559
call my computer guy and i have i read

441
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:00,159
the specs and he goes oh

442
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,000
oh man you got a good processor that's

443
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:04,559
an i5 fifth generation no you're fine

444
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,600
there

445
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:07,200
but how much ram do you have and i

446
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,880
looked i said four gigabytes because

447
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,840
dude

448
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,000
it's not gonna work that's unacceptable

449
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:14,480
windows 10 uses two gigabytes of ram

450
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:15,200
right there

451
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:16,880
you can't even run that computer it's

452
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:19,039
worthless you need more ram

453
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:23,520
and uh and slap an ssd drive in

454
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,919
now so i take the computer

455
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:30,320
and this is my advice to everybody out

456
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:31,679
there

457
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:34,960
you can get a new

458
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:38,000
internal ssd drive

459
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:41,200
500 gigabytes for 60

460
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:44,159
70 that's all you need man your

461
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:45,440
operating system and some

462
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:48,799
extra stuff but an ssd drive

463
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:52,000
right i was like okay and he goes man

464
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:54,320
bring it in i'll slap one in for you

465
00:23:01,350 --> 00:22:57,520
and so i took the computer in got the

466
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,360
uh memory upgraded uh 16 gigabytes

467
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:03,360
that was weirdness in itself by the way

468
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:04,559
but anyway

469
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,919
new ssd drive installed i bring it back

470
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:09,679
didn't do anything to the computer i

471
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:10,400
spent

472
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:14,000
a hundred bucks 100 bucks on an ssd

473
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:14,720
drive

474
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:18,559
and two eight gigabyte uh ram chips

475
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:21,200
this thing is running like nobody's

476
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:22,559
business

477
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:26,400
right i mean it's insane

478
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,919
it's perfect and i almost threw it in

479
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,360
the trash

480
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:33,280
i was gonna go spend three four hundred

481
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,960
dollars at 500

482
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,960
and get you know something that would

483
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:38,640
work for what i needed

484
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:41,679
and that's it two eight gigabyte

485
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:45,120
ram chips and a 500 gigabyte

486
00:23:51,029 --> 00:23:48,880
ssd drive purring like a kitten

487
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:51,039
i could not be happier so that's my

488
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:54,000
advice that was part of the weekend here

489
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:57,440
uh getting this and oh

490
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:59,919
the thorn has been pulled out of the

491
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:01,200
lion's paw

492
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:04,400
big deal big deal so that's my advice to

493
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:06,159
everybody out there don't retire your

494
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:07,600
old computer

495
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:10,640
slap an ssd in it kick up the ram

496
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:20,470
tomorrow

497
00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:28,960
show think about that

498
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:32,960
an impressive number for sure

499
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,240
when you first start out with any type

500
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,320
of broadcast it could be a tv show

501
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:40,480
it could be there whatever it is it

502
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:42,400
could be a podcast it could be a radio

503
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:43,520
show it could be anything

504
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:46,799
but when you start out

505
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:49,320
and you start to kick in these

506
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:50,720
milestones

507
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:54,000
right show number

508
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:58,000
50. if you're doing one show a week

509
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:01,360
it will get it'll take you a year

510
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:05,679
to get to show number 50. all right

511
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:09,120
then you hit show number 100 imagine if

512
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,760
you are doing

513
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,200
if you're doing a tv show and you're

514
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:16,159
doing 16 episodes per season 20 episodes

515
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:17,440
per season

516
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:20,640
it's gonna take you three seasons to get

517
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,760
show number 50.

518
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:23,760
it's a milestone number getting to

519
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:25,120
number 100

520
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:27,760
is a big deal and you learn a lot along

521
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,159
the way

522
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:31,440
trust me and then you look at those

523
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:34,559
huge impossible numbers like

524
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:37,600
show number 1000

525
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:39,760
you're never going to get there and i

526
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:42,799
had those thoughts at one time that's uh

527
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:46,240
that's impossible the amount of work

528
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:48,640
just to get show number one off of the

529
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,080
ground

530
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,799
is enough to scare anyone but by the

531
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,720
time you get to number 50 you have a

532
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:56,080
firm grasp about

533
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:59,679
how much work into doing a show

534
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,600
night after night week after week

535
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:02,960
entails it's it's

536
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:10,310
1300

537
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:15,840
and the real milestone of number 2000

538
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,600
is still five years from now

539
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:21,360
so we're just gonna plug along you need

540
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,600
to think about that for a moment

541
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,200
that's how big these numbers are

542
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:27,679
tomorrow we're at number 1300

543
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:30,640
and our standards were set from the very

544
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:31,200
beginning

545
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,120
to have the very best guests to have the

546
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:35,279
very best audio to have the very best

547
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,240
production

548
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,640
and to carry on the tradition of what a

549
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:40,320
late night talk radio

550
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:43,360
show should be right and to ask

551
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,320
questions and to question everything to

552
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:48,559
bring you the personalities that you

553
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,919
want to hear from

554
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:51,679
right to take a serious look at the

555
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,679
world around us and try to uncover the

556
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,760
mysteries that fill our world

557
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:58,080
that was our standard from the very

558
00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:00,000
beginning that is what fade to black has

559
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,760
always been about

560
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:03,840
i've always said that this show and our

561
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:06,000
community was like the film barber

562
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:10,320
shop in more ways than one

563
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,760
you can say anything here anything on

564
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:14,960
this show

565
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:18,000
and not be afraid to speak your mind

566
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:19,919
what happens after that well that's

567
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:21,600
something else all together

568
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:24,720
that just happens but

569
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:27,840
we have to listen to everybody sometimes

570
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:30,399
more than once

571
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:33,760
what can't happen on fade to black

572
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,799
is censorship you're never gonna

573
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,279
censor the barbershop are you you're not

574
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,039
gonna censor fade to black

575
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:43,440
censorship in that what am i speaking

576
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:45,760
about censorship in that we will not be

577
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:49,520
told what to do

578
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,360
or what guests to have on

579
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:55,120
you may not like a certain guest or

580
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:56,399
topic but

581
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:00,240
it will always be interesting

582
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:04,240
which is how you grow which is how you

583
00:28:09,909 --> 00:28:08,960
learn look if you ride your bike down

584
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:09,919
the same path

585
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:12,880
every day you're never gonna know what's

586
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:16,240
down that other path

587
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:18,799
you're not going to know sometimes you

588
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:20,960
just need to go right instead of left at

589
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:22,159
the fork

590
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:24,240
go and explore i remember when i was a

591
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,399
kid man i was out riding motorcycles out

592
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,840
in the cornfields next to our house we

593
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,440
had all these motorcycle trails

594
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:31,760
there's this one trail that i never took

595
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:33,919
and it went through these bushes

596
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:36,480
and uh and just kept on going i was

597
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:37,919
scared

598
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,440
friend of mine oh man a

599
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:43,279
friend of mine he had a little kawasaki

600
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,480
80.

601
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:46,960
and he goes man do you need to go down

602
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:47,520
that

603
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:50,000
you need to go no man i'm not going

604
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:51,760
through there

605
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:55,039
i'm safe out here he said no man you got

606
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:56,559
to follow me

607
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:58,960
i don't know all right and i followed

608
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:00,080
him

609
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,320
and we went through those bushes and i

610
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:05,120
was on a trail i'd never been on before

611
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:07,520
and it was exciting and we rode through

612
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:09,440
and saw things and stopped

613
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,440
and it was great in the future

614
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,440
when i would be out there riding and i

615
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:17,360
would come up to the fork

616
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,960
and i'd look down that path that went

617
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:20,799
through the bushes

618
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:23,520
sometimes i i went ahead and went left

619
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:25,039
and i went through those bushes

620
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,520
and i experienced that that's what this

621
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:29,039
show was about

622
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:32,080
some days you got to do that and just

623
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,320
listen to something that may rub you the

624
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:35,919
wrong way something that you don't

625
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:38,080
understand something that bothers you

626
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:39,440
something that you're not comfortable

627
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,080
with but that's how you learn

628
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:44,399
you don't stay in the comfortable

629
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:46,320
comfortable zone and that's what fade to

630
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:48,000
black has always been about

631
00:29:51,230 --> 00:29:50,640
will never change tomorrow is show

632
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:51,240
number

633
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:55,200
1300 and as i wonder all night how we

634
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:56,880
got here and i gotta think about

635
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:58,559
tomorrow

636
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:01,520
we did it show number thirteen hundred

637
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:02,799
in five years

638
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:06,080
i'll talk about show number two thousand

639
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:08,080
with that i'm going to get out of here

640
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,919
because when i come back ben moss

641
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,760
joins us we're going to be talking about

642
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:13,200
his new book he's just

643
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,240
released it about the 1964 socorro new

644
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:18,159
mexico ufo landing

645
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:21,520
with lonnie zamora tomorrow night seth

646
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:25,679
breedlove joins us on show number 1300

647
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:28,240
to announce his new film the mothman

648
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:30,240
legacy wednesday night greg house is

649
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:30,960
here

650
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,279
for a full evening of singularity

651
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:34,960
thursday night is fader night with open

652
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,559
lines all night long i'm your host jimmy

653
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:38,159
church follow me on twitter

654
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:41,600
at j church radio that's all you got to

655
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,080
do

656
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,640
and the game changer network and kgra

657
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,080
the planet

658
00:31:00,830 --> 00:30:47,919
this is fade to black stay with us we'll

659
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:04,789
[Music]

660
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,960
this is nicole church daughter of you

661
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:09,200
know who and you're listening to fade to

662
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:11,279
black on jimmychurchradio.com

663
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:17,830
you're listening to jimmy church fade to

664
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:24,230
fate to black will now pause for alien

665
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:25,200
identification

666
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:26,559
[Music]

667
00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:30,840
the station kg ra

668
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:33,519
radio

669
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,840
introducing the game changer blend from

670
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,679
river moon coffee that delivers a

671
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,080
customized blend made specifically

672
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:42,480
for the fader knots if the game is

673
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:43,279
rigged

674
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:46,240
change the game it's a boulder cup with

675
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,440
some bite

676
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:49,679
game changer is the coffee of choice for

677
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:51,919
those that prefer an organic dark roast

678
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:53,039
that is slightly

679
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:56,559
lighter and milder but it's still dark

680
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:59,120
with wild notes of pecans and chocolate

681
00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:00,000
with a rich

682
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,559
balanced full-bodied cup that is roasted

683
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,720
to perfection for a great coffee to

684
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:05,840
start your day

685
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:08,880
as an after dinner coffee or anywhere in

686
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,760
between

687
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:11,760
artisan small batch roasted to

688
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:13,840
perfection usda certified

689
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:16,559
organic all river moon coffee is freshly

690
00:32:19,870 --> 00:32:17,120
roasted

691
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:19,880
and packaged in the usa just go to

692
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:21,519
rivermooncoffee.com or click on the

693
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:23,679
banners over on our site and use the

694
00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:24,399
promo code

695
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:30,120
f2b blend for 15 off of your order today

696
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:34,159
rivermooncoffee.com go back lee tappy

697
00:32:42,190 --> 00:32:37,279
this is the only way this

698
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,200
is made to black make contact

699
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:44,480
kgraradio.com

700
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,240
this is jimmy church of fade to black

701
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:48,559
and you can get our podcast for just

702
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:51,200
two dollars per month all you have to do

703
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:53,279
is click on the podcast banner

704
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:56,880
over at jimmychurchradio.com

705
00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:59,519
hi folks it's trembling times and fear

706
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:00,880
is pushing emotions

707
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:03,120
which in turn pushes health the wrong

708
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:04,799
direction do you ever get an egg because

709
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:05,840
life is uneasy

710
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,320
try life change tea at get the tea.com

711
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:10,080
life change tea works on your digestive

712
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:11,760
tract helping to move food through

713
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,320
quicker

714
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,559
and comfortably so your health is spot

715
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:16,559
on life change team may not help with

716
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:17,519
world issues

717
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,600
but it will help with your digestive

718
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,840
issues a glass a day helps keep the

719
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:23,120
intruders away

720
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:26,399
so change your life today log on to get

721
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,880
the tea.com that's get the tea

722
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,440
dot com if your health game is off get

723
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,519
on by ordering life change tea

724
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,919
get the tea.com and while you're on our

725
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,600
site look around at the great

726
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:39,760
non-gmo organic supplements and if

727
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:40,960
you're a sales shopper

728
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:43,360
go to our specials page and see what's

729
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:44,159
for you

730
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:45,840
i've been drinking the tea for 12 years

731
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:47,360
and i'm sure glad for its health

732
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:48,320
benefits

733
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:56,630
the tea that makes you go nine out of

734
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:56,960
ten

735
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:04,710
fade to black is not

736
00:34:10,430 --> 00:34:08,399
your father's radio show on the game

737
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:10,440
changer radio network and

738
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,639
kgra the planet

739
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:16,639
hi this is rob reiner from anvil and

740
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:21,280
you're listening to jimmychurchradio.com

741
00:34:34,379 --> 00:34:24,159
what's up i'm chris what up this is

742
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:34,389
jimmy church radio

743
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,149
all right welcome back fade to black i'm

744
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:48,159
your host jimmy church what a great week

745
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:50,079
we have on the show tonight ben moss is

746
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,639
here

747
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:52,800
we're going to talk about socorro

748
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:53,839
tomorrow night seth

749
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:55,839
breedlove joins us to announce his new

750
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:58,320
film the mothman legacy

751
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:00,320
wednesday night greg housh the one and

752
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,000
only greg house joins us for

753
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:04,880
an evening of singularity and artificial

754
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,920
intelligence

755
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,760
thursday of course is another fader

756
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:09,440
night with open lines all night long but

757
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:10,480
tonight it's ben

758
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:13,520
moss ben has been with mufon since the

759
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:14,960
early 90s

760
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:16,960
he is a native of richmond virginia

761
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:18,560
where he studied psychology at the

762
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,000
university of richmond

763
00:35:23,829 --> 00:35:22,960
and as a ufo investigator ben also has

764
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,839
diligently

765
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:26,160
studied such disciplines as history

766
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:28,160
archaeology physics and astronomy

767
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,040
religion

768
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:30,960
and many other sciences required to

769
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:33,680
investigate such an elusive subject

770
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:36,880
as ufos since a chance encounter with

771
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,160
james fox at the 2014 mufon symposium

772
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:42,400
it began a long and thorough search for

773
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:44,000
what ben called the lost

774
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,960
soccoro footage after locating and

775
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:47,839
presenting this

776
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,720
vhs video ben was introduced to the

777
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:52,880
original nycap investigator

778
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,680
ray stamford five years later after

779
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:57,680
hundreds of hours of research ben has

780
00:36:02,310 --> 00:35:59,359
just released his new book

781
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,320
it's called not of this world the 1964

782
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:04,640
socorro ufo with humanoids

783
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:07,920
witness policeman lonnie zamora i would

784
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:09,280
like to welcome back to fade to black

785
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:10,400
the one and only

786
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:13,839
ben moss ben good evening how are you

787
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:15,920
i'm fine sir thanks for having me no

788
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:17,359
it's great to hear your voice

789
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:19,680
and uh it's been a while since you've

790
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,960
been on the show and

791
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:22,640
you know what's really interesting here

792
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:24,480
ben and and thank you for joining us

793
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,359
tonight

794
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:27,200
is that the last time that you were on

795
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:29,119
the show you and tony

796
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:32,720
this this whole socorro thing started to

797
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:36,240
uncover itself and here you are five

798
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:37,760
years later with everything

799
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,920
released in the book did you expect this

800
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:41,119
kind of journey

801
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:49,109
uh no you never you never know what the

802
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:50,880
final destination is going to be when

803
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:51,200
you

804
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,599
uh yeah it was just one of the things

805
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:57,839
that i put in the book was it was kind

806
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:58,480
of the

807
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,960
the case i kept on giving because the

808
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:02,320
more we dug

809
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:04,800
the more information we found that

810
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:06,720
hadn't really been made public

811
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,960
or was sporadically you know and

812
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,800
different investigators

813
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:13,200
boxes so to speak you know there's been

814
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:14,560
a couple of good books

815
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,760
written about the case um but uh

816
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:20,400
i wanted to update it all and so you

817
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:22,079
know when we got into it it just became

818
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:23,520
the search for the footage

819
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:26,960
uh when i heard james speak about what

820
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:29,599
was called 701 now called the phenomena

821
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,720
his movie

822
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,640
and he shed a socorro clip and that's

823
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,240
when i remembered seeing this clip

824
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:36,800
on tv and that became a long journey

825
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:37,920
that led to ray

826
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:41,040
and so that um that put us on a whole

827
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:42,240
nother path

828
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,960
that uh has led down this journey to

829
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,560
socorro because that

830
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,640
it just felt like the case needed

831
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:50,079
updating with the

832
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:52,880
the craigslist files and the information

833
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:53,440
that

834
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,119
tony and i uncovered when we were you

835
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:56,880
know at the location

836
00:38:01,589 --> 00:37:59,359
on three different occasions now let's

837
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:01,599
uh let's talk about a couple of things

838
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:04,720
uh before we get started here because

839
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,079
uh and i mentioned this to you

840
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,640
uh before the show well last week

841
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:12,640
actually not before the show

842
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,560
that um it takes a lot for

843
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:18,320
certain people including myself that

844
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:19,839
does you know that's

845
00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:22,240
into a lot of research and you feel that

846
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,599
you know

847
00:38:27,349 --> 00:38:25,359
everything there is about a case and

848
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,359
when something like this

849
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:30,320
uh uh about a case as significant as

850
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,440
socorro

851
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:33,839
that has been documented and all of us

852
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:35,839
have researched everything that we can

853
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:36,400
on it

854
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:38,800
that when a new book comes out is it

855
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:40,400
going to

856
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,640
teach me something that i didn't know

857
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:43,920
and hopefully

858
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,640
allow me to go further into the research

859
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:48,640
and continue to investigate

860
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:52,079
the book as did that to me numerous

861
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,680
times there were a lot of things i

862
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,200
didn't know

863
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:58,320
about the case thoroughly researched uh

864
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,960
by you and tony uh this time around and

865
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:02,400
there is a lot here for

866
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:05,520
everybody to uh to learn something but

867
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:06,880
there's something else

868
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:10,960
is that for me it seems that in a very

869
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,000
pragmatic way that you

870
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:17,040
um you have everything in this book

871
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:20,160
right everything is here

872
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:23,839
in in one edition for everybody to use

873
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:26,839
as a reference guide was that your

874
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:28,079
intention

875
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:30,880
yeah i wanted to amalgamate all the data

876
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:31,280
you know

877
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:34,079
some of the work done by ray uh because

878
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:34,560
ray

879
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:37,280
stanford was the only person that's

880
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:39,359
still alive that was on site invited by

881
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:41,920
dr heineck of project blue book so uh

882
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,560
his book

883
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:45,280
was a great and great and ray helped me

884
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,400
he pretty much wrote

885
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:48,000
you know half of the chapter on the

886
00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:49,520
symbol and some of the other

887
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:53,040
things that i put in the book but um

888
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:55,920
it was a matter of uh trying to find

889
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:56,560
because

890
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:59,440
the whole purpose was i kept saying bad

891
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:00,000
data

892
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,040
bad uh analogies bad uh

893
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:05,520
debunking and things about this case and

894
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:06,079
then

895
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:08,720
several different tv shows got it wrong

896
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:10,079
and then when a friend of mine i won't

897
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:10,960
mention his name

898
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:13,040
said that you know the craft landed on

899
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:15,119
three legs a tripod i'm like oh come on

900
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:15,760
guys

901
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,680
you got to do better than that because

902
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,359
the crap had four legs so

903
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:22,400
i felt like all the material up to this

904
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,280
20 20 date should be put in one place

905
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:27,359
for the reader to decide for himself

906
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:28,880
what actually happened there

907
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:32,880
is the is the best part of this case

908
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,000
um and i think that for me

909
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,400
i think that the best evidences this

910
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:40,000
case in this case

911
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:43,359
is lonnie zamora himself right because

912
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:44,000
we have

913
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:45,680
all of the evidence and the photographs

914
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:47,200
and the video and everything that is

915
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:47,599
there

916
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:50,240
laid out project blue book and and ray's

917
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:51,200
work and everything else

918
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:54,240
but it all comes down to

919
00:41:00,069 --> 00:40:57,040
to lonnie doesn't it is he the best

920
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:00,079
evidence in this case

921
00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:03,359
yeah it's funny because um i actually

922
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,160
you know felt like he was the perfect

923
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:08,319
ufo witness because

924
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:11,040
here's a guy a kind of a no-nonsense

925
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:12,160
police officer

926
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:15,520
who very soft of the earth type of guy

927
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:19,200
honest um hard-working gentleman that

928
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:21,359
didn't didn't care didn't even think

929
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:23,920
about ufos and had this encounter

930
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,880
and so uh one of the things that we kind

931
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,160
of found out was

932
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,480
and this was from a friend of his that

933
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,480
when he was so shaken by this encounter

934
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:34,880
he went to his uh as priests who

935
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:37,040
who told him eventually he said you can

936
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:38,560
do one of two things you can tell the

937
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:38,960
truth

938
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:41,520
or you can just stop talking about it um

939
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,800
about this case

940
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:45,200
and so lonnie always told the truth um

941
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:46,560
because that was his nature

942
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,680
and the fact that he never

943
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:51,359
it bothered him all his life but he

944
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:53,599
never tried to seek notoriety out of it

945
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:54,960
he had requests from

946
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:56,800
you know every country in the world to

947
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:58,880
fly out and do interviews and do tv

948
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:00,400
shows and things like that

949
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:03,040
he just was sick of it and uh every

950
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:04,400
everything that he

951
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:07,200
did all his actions just showed that he

952
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:09,359
had a very traumatic encounter that he

953
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:11,040
was just tired of talking about at the

954
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:12,400
end of his life he just

955
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:15,440
you know was like he can believe me if

956
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,800
you believe me that's fine if you don't

957
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:18,400
that's fine also

958
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:20,800
but um he was he never embellished his

959
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:22,319
story either which is an interesting

960
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:23,280
point because

961
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,440
it never changed over time you know if

962
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:27,280
you talk about something like roswell

963
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,400
stories seem to get

964
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,720
fuller and richer over time but lonnie

965
00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:32,319
always told the same story

966
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:35,200
and if anything what i found out was he

967
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,960
kind of kept some things to himself

968
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:38,960
i i think he was a lot more traumatized

969
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:41,200
by what he walked up on

970
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:44,240
than he ever said so yeah he was the

971
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,920
perfect witness because he was just an

972
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:47,440
honest guy had

973
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:50,000
was not interested in the field at all

974
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:51,760
and had this strange encounter in the

975
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:53,680
desert that just shook his world for the

976
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,960
rest of his life

977
00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:56,400
now we're going to be talking about a

978
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:58,240
lot of things tonight and

979
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:59,520
one of the things and you just

980
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,520
referenced right now i was going to say

981
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:03,599
this for a little bit later

982
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:06,640
but uh is the craigslist files

983
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:10,079
so let's actually start there um

984
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:11,680
this was something that i didn't know

985
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:13,359
about and

986
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:16,079
uh as as i'm reading the book uh the

987
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,920
book is excellent oh by the way

988
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,680
everybody i'll tell you how how to get

989
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:21,040
the book in

990
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:24,000
in in later on in the show a little bit

991
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:24,480
different

992
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,760
uh way of ordering the book but

993
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:30,319
is the craigslist files so what are the

994
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:33,359
craigslist files

995
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,920
so rob mercer who was i believe the

996
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:37,680
state director of ohio

997
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:41,839
mufon at the time he had um

998
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:44,880
he had he apparently had random

999
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:47,440
usually just looked online for ufo stuff

1000
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,079
and

1001
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:50,160
you know as smart as he was he was

1002
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,240
looking around craigslist

1003
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:54,720
and these files popped up on craigslist

1004
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:57,920
and to make kind of a long story short

1005
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:01,119
what happened was the files were left or

1006
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:04,240
kind of at a location that

1007
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:07,520
captain uh murano had been uh living at

1008
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,160
that

1009
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:10,400
was part of project blue book and these

1010
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:12,880
were files and and some boxes that he

1011
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:13,520
just

1012
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,160
thank god decided not to throw away when

1013
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:18,880
blue book ended because it seemed like

1014
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:20,960
the files had no place to go and so he

1015
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:22,160
saved all these files

1016
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,359
and a lot of them were with regards to

1017
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:27,520
socorro but some of them had like the

1018
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:29,440
trendington film and some really

1019
00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:32,400
interesting footage and and other cases

1020
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:34,839
and so these files were put up on

1021
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:36,160
craigslist and

1022
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:38,640
um when rob dug into it and i have all

1023
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:39,599
this in the book

1024
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:42,720
of the emails from catherine morano and

1025
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:43,359
uh

1026
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:45,760
between robin him he gave him all this

1027
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,400
material

1028
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:48,880
and so this was classified blue book

1029
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:51,040
material and some notes and journals and

1030
00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:52,319
things like that but

1031
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:54,720
183 pages of it was based on the

1032
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:56,079
squirrel case

1033
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,720
and i put the most pertinent ones in the

1034
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,400
book just to show you that there was a

1035
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:02,000
lot of time money

1036
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,599
and manpower uh expended to try to solve

1037
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,440
a case that is still classified as

1038
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:09,040
unknown so these files are really

1039
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:10,560
important some of

1040
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:13,599
them are replicated in the project blue

1041
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,960
book case files

1042
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,960
but some of them were left out and it

1043
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,000
just shows

1044
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:20,480
the confusion and the attention that was

1045
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:21,680
on this

1046
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:23,440
the investigators of this case from the

1047
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,800
joint chiefs of staff

1048
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:27,520
the fbi you know was there and said

1049
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:29,520
don't tell anybody we were here the cia

1050
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:30,720
was involved

1051
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,280
and so it just gives you a broader view

1052
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,960
of how deeply the government

1053
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,480
investigated a case

1054
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:39,119
and still couldn't solve it one of the

1055
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:39,839
things

1056
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:42,880
that i think stands out about this case

1057
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:46,800
uh if if we look at two or three points

1058
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:47,680
right in a row

1059
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:51,680
that that are eye openers number one

1060
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:54,640
is lonnie comes up uh we'll get into

1061
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:56,240
this in greater detail

1062
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:00,240
a bit later but in its fundamental form

1063
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,640
this is what happened lonnie comes up

1064
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:04,400
within a couple of minutes

1065
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:07,520
uh he has radioed the state police

1066
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:11,440
the re the state police miraculously

1067
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:14,079
in the area they're on the they are at

1068
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:15,200
the scene

1069
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:18,800
about two minutes later um so they were

1070
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,480
able to uh talk to lonnie right away and

1071
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:24,480
hear from him why he was there and what

1072
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:25,680
was going on

1073
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:27,760
that's pretty astounding but later on

1074
00:46:30,790 --> 00:46:28,960
that afternoon

1075
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,800
we got everybody there we got the air

1076
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:32,800
force we got the fbi

1077
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:35,359
um phone calls were let out everything

1078
00:46:41,349 --> 00:46:38,560
goes back to wright patterson

1079
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:41,359
heineck is suddenly made aware of what

1080
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:42,240
was going on

1081
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:44,400
and jacques valet was present at wright

1082
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:45,280
patterson when

1083
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:47,200
all of this went down the next day

1084
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,400
jacques valet

1085
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:50,720
flies out now he's on the case so

1086
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,319
immediately

1087
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:54,480
this case had the attention of just

1088
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:56,240
about everybody in the federal

1089
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:57,200
government didn't

1090
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:00,480
i mean like for 1964 it was

1091
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:06,470
yeah it was the i think the issue the

1092
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:07,760
government had was

1093
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,720
that it hit the newspaper pretty quickly

1094
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:12,079
the el defensor chief

1095
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,640
in socorro came out on tuesdays and

1096
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:16,800
thursdays i think so it came out this

1097
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:20,160
this occurred on a friday april the 24th

1098
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:22,960
in 1964 but the

1099
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:24,960
the papers got to hold it quickly had a

1100
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:27,040
lot of interviews with lonnie

1101
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,960
talking about the symbol and the and the

1102
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:30,559
creatures that he saw

1103
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:33,599
so it kind of jumped the gun um captain

1104
00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:35,680
holder who is the uprange commander of

1105
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:37,280
white sands

1106
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:40,880
the nearby air force base there he lived

1107
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,960
in the area so he was on site pretty

1108
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:44,800
quickly heineken arrived i think on the

1109
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:45,440
29th

1110
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:48,880
the same day that ray stanford arrived

1111
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:52,000
but he was there pretty quickly and you

1112
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:52,319
know

1113
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,079
sergeant chavez was actually the first

1114
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:55,680
to show up um

1115
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:58,079
when lonnie called him and wanted only

1116
00:48:01,910 --> 00:48:00,000
him to come to the site

1117
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:01,920
and he he noticed how freaked out that

1118
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:03,280
lonnie was and that was the

1119
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:06,960
you know just the beginning of probably

1120
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,920
every every arm of the government being

1121
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:11,920
involved and trying to figure out

1122
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,640
what landed in the desert that day and

1123
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:16,480
that's why the more we dug the more

1124
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:19,359
we found how baffled they were by all

1125
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:21,280
the the doors that weren't you know

1126
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:22,800
they could open any door they wanted to

1127
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:24,800
look into and all the answers were no we

1128
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:27,280
didn't build that no it's not the lunar

1129
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:29,280
lander it's not a vertical takeoff

1130
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:30,559
vehicle and

1131
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:32,480
the fact that the joint chief of staff

1132
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:34,880
was asking you had to answer to all

1133
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:35,680
these guys

1134
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:37,599
and so everybody was giving honest

1135
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,720
answers and that's part of that

1136
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:40,240
craigslist files

1137
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:41,760
that chapter where i put in what i

1138
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:43,760
thought were the most pertinent

1139
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:46,079
inquiries by the government of hughes

1140
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:47,359
and bell's lab

1141
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:50,480
and nasa and all the organizations that

1142
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:51,520
would be involved

1143
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:54,319
in in building a flying vehicle of this

1144
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:55,119
type

1145
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:58,240
now um and again we'll get into

1146
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:00,480
uh the detail of all the all of this

1147
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:02,240
throughout tonight

1148
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:06,319
but there was lonnie wasn't the only

1149
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,240
witness uh to this there were

1150
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:13,200
uh several other accounts one of them of

1151
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:13,680
course

1152
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:16,800
the tourist at the gas station but there

1153
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:17,040
are

1154
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:20,160
other things that surfaced uh

1155
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:22,800
around there at the exact same time

1156
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:27,589
yeah there were i have a whole chapter

1157
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:30,160
on egg-shaped craft that occurred in a

1158
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,480
time

1159
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,720
frame in the area and some you know

1160
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:34,800
years earlier years later but

1161
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:38,319
there were three independent calls into

1162
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,839
the police dispatch from the albuquerque

1163
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,440
area saying that there was something

1164
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:45,119
heading towards socorro with a blue

1165
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:46,720
flame

1166
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:48,240
some type of thing flying through the

1167
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,319
air so you had those independent

1168
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,359
witnesses then you had

1169
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:55,599
the opal grinder witnesses were a family

1170
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:57,599
of tourists from colorado that said it

1171
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:59,040
almost smacked into their car

1172
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,920
which kind of kind of tells you that

1173
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,520
whatever this craft was was having some

1174
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:05,280
difficulty and then they saw lonnie

1175
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:06,400
heading towards it

1176
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:09,200
and they were never found then you had

1177
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:09,599
the

1178
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:18,319
think west on 60 west

1179
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:20,720
and they saw the craft also and reported

1180
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:22,079
that in the paper and they were tracked

1181
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:23,200
down later

1182
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:26,400
you had multiple witnesses of um of the

1183
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,359
sound

1184
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,800
and then we found an account when we

1185
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:30,559
were in socorro we found an account of a

1186
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:32,079
woman who would pass away but it was

1187
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:33,599
just kind of common knowledge

1188
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:36,079
it's weird in socorro a lot of people

1189
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,960
that were there

1190
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:39,040
and the time frame that are still alive

1191
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:40,160
still live there they

1192
00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:42,160
haven't left the area so you still have

1193
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,079
a lot of people that remember the event

1194
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:46,400
and there was a woman who apparently had

1195
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:47,280
passed but she

1196
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:50,480
lived off of the reservoir which is kind

1197
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,000
of a canal area

1198
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,880
in scorrow and she had told people she

1199
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:56,880
said yeah i saw this thing come down the

1200
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,520
canal

1201
00:51:01,589 --> 00:50:59,599
it's kind of a depressed area with

1202
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:01,599
toilets on both sides so it's a good way

1203
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:02,319
to

1204
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:06,480
socorro and not be seen but

1205
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:08,559
she said yeah egg-shaped craft flew down

1206
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:10,319
here and then took a turn and headed

1207
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:11,599
towards where oprah

1208
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:14,880
grinders gas station was and so that was

1209
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,880
never reported anywhere

1210
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:19,200
and then we had a couple of other

1211
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,160
stories like that

1212
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:22,559
they're just stories but there were you

1213
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,200
know even

1214
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:25,200
ray had talked to the police officers

1215
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:27,359
there and some of them kind of indicated

1216
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:28,559
they had seen it but

1217
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:30,160
because of the way lonnie was treated by

1218
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,040
the fbi and the military they didn't

1219
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:34,800
want to ever bring up the fact that they

1220
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:36,160
had seen it also

1221
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:37,839
we had heard of another landing near the

1222
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:39,520
reservoir that was

1223
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:41,680
kind of kept under wraps uh there was

1224
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:42,960
something at a place called

1225
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:45,760
box canyon out there it's just weird

1226
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,440
when we were out there we kept on

1227
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:50,160
covering people that had heard stories

1228
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:53,520
or had been around people that had

1229
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,720
witnessed these events and so when i did

1230
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:58,640
a newspaper search i did find three or

1231
00:52:02,309 --> 00:51:59,920
four other witnesses

1232
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:02,319
on the same day or proceeding days that

1233
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:03,119
saw

1234
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:06,000
an egg-shaped craft of the same size and

1235
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:06,640
dimensions

1236
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:10,240
as the one at loni saw one of the uh

1237
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:13,280
one of the things that lonnie said

1238
00:52:17,349 --> 00:52:15,680
which i think causes all of us to

1239
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:17,359
scratch our heads and just go

1240
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:20,640
okay this probably wasn't terrestrial

1241
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:23,040
because of this very honest comment that

1242
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:23,920
he said

1243
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:27,839
it was the roar and then the roar

1244
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:31,920
stopped and the craft was silent

1245
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:34,400
as it flew away that's the exact

1246
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:35,119
opposite of

1247
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:36,720
anything that you would think that if it

1248
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:38,160
was terrestrial right

1249
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:41,520
a helicopter or anything else um

1250
00:52:48,069 --> 00:52:44,880
yeah it's a very interesting point

1251
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:48,079
that he says out of a um

1252
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,000
out of an innocent uh recollection

1253
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:54,079
of something that happened very fast but

1254
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:56,000
he was overtaken by the roar

1255
00:53:01,430 --> 00:52:58,640
and then the roar stopped it's very

1256
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:01,440
interesting isn't it

1257
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:04,400
yeah um you know when i had to cover the

1258
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:05,920
hoax the areas you know a hot air

1259
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:06,480
balloon

1260
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:09,920
would have a possibly a blue flame going

1261
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:12,800
up into a bloom but certainly not down

1262
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:14,800
where the gondola would be or

1263
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,960
you would have people sitting in there

1264
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:18,559
um and

1265
00:53:22,710 --> 00:53:21,920
the the the um the fact that the you

1266
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:22,720
know the

1267
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:24,240
the blue flame itself kind of knifed

1268
00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:26,400
into the ground wasn't a propellant but

1269
00:53:29,750 --> 00:53:29,280
it seemed like the craft lifted up with

1270
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,760
one

1271
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:31,599
type of engine that had the blue flame

1272
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:33,359
and then that one cut off

1273
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:35,280
and lonnie said it was silent and it

1274
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:37,040
kind of stayed there for a second

1275
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,920
and um i've been accused of making up

1276
00:53:42,549 --> 00:53:41,359
the fact that lonnie said it hovered

1277
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:42,559
there for a second but

1278
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:44,800
in his own words and he said it on tv it

1279
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:46,480
said it just kind of stayed there for a

1280
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:47,280
second

1281
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:48,800
and then it started moving towards the

1282
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:50,960
dynamite shack completely silent

1283
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:53,760
so it seems like there was a terrestrial

1284
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:54,640
type engine

1285
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,520
to land or work an atmosphere but

1286
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:59,520
whatever that secondary engine that went

1287
00:54:02,069 --> 00:54:00,160
silent

1288
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:02,079
uh kicked in that's when it went towards

1289
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,760
the perlite mill and then

1290
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:06,000
took a beat up into the sky and probably

1291
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:06,880
hit

1292
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:08,319
six or seven hundred miles an hour

1293
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:09,760
before it disappeared because it didn't

1294
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,000
take

1295
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:12,400
long to get to uh some mountains that

1296
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:14,079
were six miles away

1297
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,760
and so it's very yeah it's very

1298
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:17,760
interesting that the diminutive size of

1299
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:19,920
the creatures that you saw

1300
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:22,880
and we'll get to the humanoids uh which

1301
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:24,319
is a pretty loose term

1302
00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:26,319
uh we'll get to that uh in just a bit

1303
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:27,520
too as well

1304
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:30,880
but it's very curious uh for

1305
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,839
him he didn't say flying saucer you know

1306
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:34,720
he didn't say

1307
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:41,359
he said it was egg shaped

1308
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:44,400
now that i and we can go through ufo

1309
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:47,119
sightings uh before and after that

1310
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:49,200
the socorro case is singular in this

1311
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:50,319
kind of description

1312
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:53,680
isn't it yeah there was

1313
00:54:59,430 --> 00:54:56,960
um the well it and i think a day

1314
00:55:01,510 --> 00:54:59,440
or two days later was la madera which

1315
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,520
was almost a precisely

1316
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:03,440
same description of the same type of

1317
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:05,119
craft and landing

1318
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:07,839
um i know ray doesn't have a strong

1319
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:09,680
feeling about that case he thinks it

1320
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:11,040
might have been a hoax

1321
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:12,720
but as i dug into that a little bit

1322
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:15,040
there were reports by police officers

1323
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:16,799
that saw this thing

1324
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:19,359
and so i it might have also landed in la

1325
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:21,280
medeiros just that it

1326
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:22,799
the amount of time and effort i put in

1327
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:24,880
the socorro i just couldn't um

1328
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,119
go after that also because that would

1329
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:29,200
involve going to that town and digging

1330
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:30,319
deeper

1331
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,680
um but the evidence i found was there

1332
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,920
like seven or eight incursions of an

1333
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:37,839
egg-shaped craft in the area at that

1334
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:38,319
time

1335
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:41,200
and it is a very unusual shape um you

1336
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:42,640
know

1337
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:45,520
i when i did a search the only thing

1338
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:46,160
similar

1339
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:49,839
is ellipsoid or football shaped

1340
00:55:55,270 --> 00:55:53,119
or squashed ovoid was one

1341
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:55,280
and so it's interesting that it's very

1342
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:56,319
rare

1343
00:55:59,589 --> 00:55:57,599
you know that you have that type of

1344
00:56:02,950 --> 00:55:59,599
shape of craft um

1345
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:02,960
and it's it's just indicative of a flap

1346
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:05,280
that was occurring at that time

1347
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:08,480
the uh the next part of this uh

1348
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:11,440
which again is just interesting it's so

1349
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:12,640
singular

1350
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:15,680
is uh not only the humanoids outside of

1351
00:56:20,069 --> 00:56:16,720
the craft

1352
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:20,079
but he didn't see a door um

1353
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:23,839
and there were four legs

1354
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:29,589
that had extended from the craft and it

1355
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:31,760
was sitting on the ground and he had

1356
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:34,720
always described it this way but we have

1357
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:35,359
the trace

1358
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:39,200
evidence that shows just that

1359
00:56:44,069 --> 00:56:42,960
and that is again very interesting when

1360
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:44,079
you talk about the lunar

1361
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:46,880
lander or other things out there you

1362
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:47,520
know

1363
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:50,480
very secretive projects and stuff but

1364
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:51,359
nothing like

1365
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:54,799
this lon this is what lonnie saw

1366
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:58,319
right right right yeah the

1367
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:00,960
the um you know when i did this

1368
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:03,599
investigation we had to look at the fact

1369
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:05,200
that you have to look at the hoax

1370
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,960
theories or the other alternative

1371
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:08,480
explanations which

1372
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:10,720
another chapter in the book but the

1373
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,640
lunar lander had you know circular

1374
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:13,839
landing pads

1375
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:16,720
this was more of a wedge-shaped

1376
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:17,839
rectangular

1377
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:22,559
uh landing pad and uh the lunar lander

1378
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:25,440
um it had an engine that used a it's a

1379
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:26,079
combination

1380
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:28,079
it's called hydroxide but it's a very

1381
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:29,200
caustic

1382
00:57:34,069 --> 00:57:32,480
um fuel for the engine and every time

1383
00:57:35,829 --> 00:57:34,079
they test fire the engine they had to be

1384
00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:35,839
rebuilt because it was meant to operate

1385
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:36,480
in no

1386
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:39,440
in a vacuum of space so the lunar lander

1387
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:41,760
i put a chapter in there from nasa about

1388
00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:43,520
the lander and the lander didn't even

1389
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:46,000
actually really fly until october but

1390
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:47,760
there was no scheduled flights on that

1391
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:49,359
date it was being dropped from a bell

1392
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:51,599
helicopter to test the integrity of its

1393
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:52,720
struts

1394
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:55,599
but there's just no way you would test a

1395
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:56,640
top secret

1396
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:01,440
that you have at your disposal

1397
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:04,960
in the middle of a public desert and um

1398
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:07,119
so and the fact that lonnie you know

1399
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:09,119
lonnie was a very good witness he had

1400
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:12,000
you know he had been uh he had some

1401
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:13,920
military background as a police officer

1402
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:14,640
he was very

1403
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:17,680
good at deserving things and so you know

1404
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,160
his details never change and and when

1405
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:21,920
you look hard at the case and the

1406
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:23,040
details

1407
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:25,119
you really begin to see that there's not

1408
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:26,640
a whole lot of

1409
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:29,040
there's really no other explanation if

1410
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:31,280
you take lonnie out as a word which i

1411
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,960
i have a chapter about the nature of

1412
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:34,400
lonnie in the book

1413
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:36,400
you take lonnie this word then you you

1414
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:38,160
really have to think outside the box as

1415
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:38,559
to

1416
00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:41,599
what he actually encountered he um

1417
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:45,520
in describing the case uh over the years

1418
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:48,559
uh both with interviews written um

1419
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:51,680
and audio and of course television he

1420
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:53,440
he describes the case in like four

1421
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:54,960
sentences right

1422
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:57,359
that's about it there's just nothing

1423
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:58,319
else in the case

1424
00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,079
is there i mean that's it he pulled up

1425
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:01,680
and he saw what he saw

1426
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,480
uh there was the symbol on the side uh

1427
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:06,480
he stumbled and fell his glasses fell

1428
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:08,000
off he got to his radio

1429
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:10,319
he called chavez at the state police

1430
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:12,400
chavez showed up and that's the end of

1431
00:59:16,829 --> 00:59:14,720
the story that's that's

1432
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:16,839
there's really nothing else to it is

1433
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,799
there

1434
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:21,280
well a little more i mean he when he was

1435
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:22,880
rolling up when he was chasing the

1436
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:23,760
speeder

1437
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:26,000
you know the thing there was a blue

1438
00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:28,240
light that crossed the road he was on

1439
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:31,760
and so that drew him to go up this

1440
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:32,240
really

1441
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:35,359
nasty hill into the arroyo into the

1442
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:36,559
desert there

1443
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:39,680
and so he saw something descending and

1444
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:41,280
he knew it was near the dynamite shack

1445
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:42,720
so when he crested

1446
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:44,480
after three tries and he crested the

1447
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,280
hill he was kind of leaning out the left

1448
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:49,200
side of his car because the object was

1449
00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:51,119
on the left he was driving on this

1450
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,319
hill that's barely transversable

1451
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:56,240
and he was in a brand new car too he was

1452
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,680
thinking somebody might

1453
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:59,280
you know it might be somebody in danger

1454
01:00:02,549 --> 01:00:01,119
that might be some issue but

1455
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:02,559
he was looking out the left side of his

1456
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:05,680
window and he could see what he thought

1457
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:08,880
was an overturned car or an airplane or

1458
01:00:12,789 --> 01:00:10,880
something it was white and it just

1459
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:12,799
didn't didn't look like anything he saw

1460
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:14,799
but then as he got closer

1461
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:16,960
and he kind of went to an area where you

1462
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:19,200
could see into this depression

1463
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:20,720
that's when he spotted the creatures

1464
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:22,640
that were kind of looking on the

1465
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:23,760
underside of the craft

1466
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,680
like they were inspecting it now let's

1467
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:27,040
stop let's

1468
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:28,559
ben let's stop right there we got to

1469
01:00:33,430 --> 01:00:30,240
take a break perfect

1470
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:33,440
spot for a break our guest tonight is

1471
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:36,400
ben moss we're talking about the 1964

1472
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:37,119
socorro

1473
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:40,880
new mexico ufo landing witnessed by

1474
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:44,799
patrolmen policeman lonnie zamora

1475
01:00:48,549 --> 01:00:46,960
the book is out and we will talk about

1476
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:48,559
that and how you can get it it's called

1477
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:49,760
not of this world

1478
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:52,640
the 1964 socorro ufo with humanoids

1479
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:54,240
witness policeman

1480
01:01:10,950 --> 01:00:56,880
lonnie zamora this is faded black we'll

1481
01:01:13,109 --> 01:01:10,960
be right back stay with us

1482
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:13,119
this is fade to black with jimmy church

1483
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:15,440
on the game changer radio network

1484
01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:20,400
and kgra the global radio alliance

1485
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:22,960
this is kgra digital broadcasting

1486
01:01:28,390 --> 01:01:24,000
station

1487
01:01:30,390 --> 01:01:28,400
salt lake city utah van buren arkansas

1488
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,400
hello my name is billy carson and i'm a

1489
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:32,000
best-selling author and the founder of

1490
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:33,760
forbidden knowledge dot tv

1491
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:35,359
together with my team we have built a

1492
01:01:39,270 --> 01:01:37,680
all new contest streaming tv platform

1493
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:39,280
designed with every family member in

1494
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:41,200
mind if you have ever wanted to travel

1495
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:42,480
the world and attend lectures and

1496
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:44,000
workshops from your favorite speakers

1497
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:45,040
who weren't able to

1498
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:47,760
look no further forbidden knowledge dot

1499
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:48,400
tv

1500
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:50,079
there are dozens of workshops and

1501
01:01:54,069 --> 01:01:52,000
lectures from speakers you know and love

1502
01:01:55,910 --> 01:01:54,079
we have also included amazing categories

1503
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:55,920
to assure that your consciousness is

1504
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:57,760
entertained and elevating on a daily

1505
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:58,400
basis

1506
01:02:01,670 --> 01:02:00,559
amazing interviews ancient history

1507
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:01,680
ascension knowledge

1508
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:03,680
wisdom teachings documentaries

1509
01:02:07,109 --> 01:02:04,880
conspiracies

1510
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:07,119
mysteries health and fitness conscious

1511
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,039
cooking meditations finance

1512
01:02:13,589 --> 01:02:11,200
yoga and so much more to start your free

1513
01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:13,599
trial on any mobile device or computer

1514
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:16,240
surf to forbidden knowledge dot tv

1515
01:02:18,789 --> 01:02:16,799
that's

1516
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:18,799
forbidden knowledge with the number four

1517
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:20,000
forbidden knowledge

1518
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:23,520
dot tv

1519
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:27,039
today listen

1520
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:30,000
i know and you know that you've always

1521
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:32,000
wanted your first crystal skull

1522
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:34,160
or maybe you're a collector just like me

1523
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:36,160
but you just don't know where to go

1524
01:02:40,230 --> 01:02:38,799
to find the real thing then i met

1525
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:40,240
carolyn ford over at

1526
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:43,520
einstein the crystalskull.com carolyn is

1527
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:45,760
the guardian of einstein one of the most

1528
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:48,000
respected ancient crystal skulls in the

1529
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:48,799
world

1530
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:50,480
all of her unique skulls have been

1531
01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:52,319
imprinted sitting with einstein

1532
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,400
in his sacred lodge and are carved from

1533
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:56,960
the finest gemstone and materials

1534
01:03:01,589 --> 01:02:59,119
imprinting is the process of receiving

1535
01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:01,599
the ancient wisdom from the master skull

1536
01:03:06,230 --> 01:03:03,200
or master computer

1537
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:06,240
einstein the ancient crystal skull

1538
01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:08,000
to see carolyn's current collection of

1539
01:03:13,270 --> 01:03:10,400
crystal skulls just visit her store at

1540
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:13,280
einstein the crystalskull.com or click

1541
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:15,280
on the banner over on our site

1542
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:17,760
don't forget to use the promo code jimmy

1543
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:19,760
at checkout to receive 10

1544
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:22,240
off of your order today that's promo

1545
01:03:25,589 --> 01:03:22,960
code

1546
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:25,599
jimmy finding your first or next crystal

1547
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:26,880
skull is easy

1548
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:34,470
when you take the beans from central

1549
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:35,359
america

1550
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:37,680
with dashes of indonesian and african

1551
01:03:40,630 --> 01:03:38,400
mixed in

1552
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:40,640
and then roasted to the dark side of

1553
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:42,000
fate to black

1554
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:45,200
you create the ultimate brew of fringe

1555
01:03:49,829 --> 01:03:48,160
introducing the fade to black blend from

1556
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:49,839
river moon coffee

1557
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:52,880
yes river moon's darkest customized

1558
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:54,960
roast was created for the love

1559
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:58,160
of fade to black the alchemy of

1560
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:00,960
masterful roasting and smoking the beans

1561
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:03,599
is in every sip of this full-bodied

1562
01:04:09,829 --> 01:04:07,280
dark java i need my coffee doc

1563
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:09,839
deep with distinct bittersweet chocolate

1564
01:04:13,349 --> 01:04:10,799
highlights

1565
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:13,359
just like the bunker leaning further

1566
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:15,920
into the darkness of the roast is fade

1567
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,359
to black blend from

1568
01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:19,760
river moon coffee just click on the

1569
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:22,079
banner at jimmychurchradio.com and use

1570
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:23,039
the promo code

1571
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:26,079
f2b blend for 15 off of your

1572
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:33,670
you're listening to my main man jimmy

1573
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:35,200
church

1574
01:04:42,069 --> 01:04:40,000
radio.com hi this is repping the planet

1575
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:42,079
and you're listening to my good friend

1576
01:04:45,910 --> 01:04:44,960
jimmy church fade to black on the game

1577
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:45,920
changer network

1578
01:04:53,870 --> 01:04:50,720
and the kgra digital broadcast station

1579
01:04:55,029 --> 01:04:53,880
this is toby kebbel you're listening to

1580
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:55,039
jimmychurchradio.com

1581
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:58,079
don't hurt me jimmy i'm only little hey

1582
01:05:01,029 --> 01:04:59,200
i'm adrian grenier

1583
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:01,039
and this is ari gold we're the honey

1584
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:07,910
hey i'm adrian grenier and i'm ari gold

1585
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:09,599
we're the honey brothers

1586
01:05:13,349 --> 01:05:11,839
and you're listening to jimmy church a

1587
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:13,359
revolution

1588
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:15,039
this is jimmy church of fade to black

1589
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:17,039
and you can become an official fate or

1590
01:05:23,589 --> 01:05:19,359
not by just going to our membership

1591
01:05:25,670 --> 01:05:23,599
section at jimmychurchradio.com

1592
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:25,680
hello this is serena wright taylor from

1593
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:27,119
conscious life expo

1594
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:29,039
and you're listening to fade to black

1595
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,160
with jimmy church

1596
01:05:34,829 --> 01:05:32,400
who holds the lucky pony record for the

1597
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:34,839
best astrological chart since

1598
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:38,160
1963. true story

1599
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:39,839
this is micah hanks of the ghrelian

1600
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:41,440
report and you're listening to jimmy

1601
01:05:44,710 --> 01:05:42,960
church on fade to black

1602
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:44,720
across the globe on the game changer

1603
01:05:50,090 --> 01:05:46,640
radio network and the one and only

1604
01:05:57,370 --> 01:05:50,100
kgra radio the planet

1605
01:05:57,380 --> 01:06:09,349
[Music]

1606
01:06:12,470 --> 01:06:10,950
all right welcome back fade to block i'm

1607
01:06:15,589 --> 01:06:12,480
your host jimmy church tonight ben

1608
01:06:17,589 --> 01:06:15,599
moss is here talking about his new book

1609
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:17,599
it has just been released

1610
01:06:22,309 --> 01:06:20,000
it's called out of this world the 1964

1611
01:06:25,829 --> 01:06:22,319
socorro ufo with humanoids

1612
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:25,839
witness policeman lonnie zamora

1613
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:29,359
now ben uh how can everybody

1614
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:32,400
get the book

1615
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:35,599
well you can hunt me down on facebook

1616
01:06:39,349 --> 01:06:38,480
uh ben moss uh you just type my name and

1617
01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:39,359
i'll show up

1618
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:42,559
um you can if you're not on facebook

1619
01:06:49,510 --> 01:06:46,079
you can uh shoot me an email to uh

1620
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:49,520
jb as in j as in

1621
01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:54,319
john board uh moss mosf09

1622
01:06:58,470 --> 01:06:56,960
gmail.com it's one of those weird email

1623
01:07:02,710 --> 01:06:58,480
addresses of gmail so jb

1624
01:07:04,470 --> 01:07:02,720
moss at 09 gmail.com

1625
01:07:05,990 --> 01:07:04,480
but most people on facebook if you're

1626
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:06,000
not um you know

1627
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,880
email me and or there's many ways to

1628
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:10,640
reach me you can find me all over

1629
01:07:13,990 --> 01:07:13,680
social social media unfortunately if i

1630
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:14,000
google

1631
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:15,920
myself now i show up everywhere so

1632
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:18,640
that's kind of scary but yeah it is

1633
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:21,760
it is scary we have the link to ben's uh

1634
01:07:26,829 --> 01:07:23,039
facebook page

1635
01:07:28,069 --> 01:07:26,839
uh it uh uh over in his bio at

1636
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:28,079
jimmychurchradio.com

1637
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:29,680
you just click and head straight over

1638
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:32,480
there ben has self-published

1639
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:36,079
the book um so that is the best way to

1640
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:36,640
do it is

1641
01:07:43,349 --> 01:07:39,760
uh to reach out to ben over on facebook

1642
01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:43,359
um the book is a good a good read i am

1643
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:46,400
uh nearly finished with it what i ended

1644
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:47,760
up doing

1645
01:07:52,630 --> 01:07:50,079
is i got about halfway through the book

1646
01:07:54,870 --> 01:07:52,640
ben and i started over

1647
01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:54,880
right i was like okay wait a minute and

1648
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:56,480
it was because there's so much

1649
01:08:00,390 --> 01:07:58,000
information here

1650
01:08:01,750 --> 01:08:00,400
and i'm going through it and i had to i

1651
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:01,760
had to start over

1652
01:08:07,430 --> 01:08:05,280
uh fantastic read unbelievable

1653
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:07,440
um and there was a reason for that uh

1654
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:09,599
you've got a bunch of links in the book

1655
01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:11,520
and and things to go and reference and i

1656
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:12,960
was telling you about that too as well

1657
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:14,559
it forced me to go back

1658
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:16,799
and and look at things uh that i had

1659
01:08:20,709 --> 01:08:17,679
gone over

1660
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:20,719
uh the years forgotten about and and

1661
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:21,440
went back

1662
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:23,759
and the book is sensational in that

1663
01:08:26,630 --> 01:08:26,000
respect it's it's so well done and laid

1664
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:26,640
out

1665
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:28,799
and i want to get to a couple of points

1666
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:30,000
in the book uh

1667
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:33,040
let's talk about uh the humanoid uh

1668
01:08:37,030 --> 01:08:35,759
figures um you say humanoid in the title

1669
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:37,040
of the book

1670
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:40,960
lonnie um for me one thing that he

1671
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:44,319
never said out of the gate was i saw

1672
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:48,159
four men three men two men men

1673
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:51,279
right outside of the crowd he never said

1674
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:54,560
that he it was the exact opposite

1675
01:09:01,749 --> 01:08:58,080
he talked about these two small

1676
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:01,759
uh things in in white coveralls

1677
01:09:07,829 --> 01:09:03,600
uh let's take us through that what did

1678
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:07,839
he say in the very beginning to chavez

1679
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:11,199
well he said he saw he's he saw two

1680
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:14,560
small um you know

1681
01:09:18,390 --> 01:09:17,120
it depends on who you talk to and

1682
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:18,400
there's different interviews where he

1683
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:20,400
says different things but

1684
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:23,520
he i don't think he really made public

1685
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,279
everything he said to chavez about the

1686
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:27,040
beans because as soon as they

1687
01:09:32,309 --> 01:09:30,480
went back and the fbi fbi agent said

1688
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,319
you should stop talking about the beans

1689
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:34,560
not to not to shut lonnie up but

1690
01:09:38,070 --> 01:09:36,000
probably to protect his

1691
01:09:39,990 --> 01:09:38,080
in integrity you know starts talking

1692
01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:40,000
about seeing little creatures at

1693
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:43,199
in 1964 you're pretty much labeled nuts

1694
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:46,400
but the fact that they were um

1695
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:49,120
he indicated when when ray and dr

1696
01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:50,719
heineck were there he's standing next to

1697
01:09:55,270 --> 01:09:51,600
the creole site

1698
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:55,280
or greasewood bush that's on site um he

1699
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:56,960
held his hand about four feet high and

1700
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,159
said they were about this tall

1701
01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:01,280
so four foot tall and i

1702
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:03,920
i kind of get the impression from the

1703
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:05,920
after talking to lonnie's daughter and

1704
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:07,520
friends of his that

1705
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:09,440
bonnie was pretty freaked out i think he

1706
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:11,600
may have gotten a pretty good look

1707
01:10:16,229 --> 01:10:14,400
or a better look at what he what these

1708
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:16,239
creatures were than he ever actually

1709
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:18,960
told anybody or that i could find out

1710
01:10:22,310 --> 01:10:20,960
but the whole thing about white

1711
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:22,320
coveralls

1712
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:25,120
to me sounds like a good way not to have

1713
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:26,159
to describe

1714
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:29,280
any features um i think when he was

1715
01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:30,080
driving his car

1716
01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:32,000
up and looking out the window and he got

1717
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:33,280
to the point where he thought he was

1718
01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:33,840
going to

1719
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:36,560
come up on a couple of kids or something

1720
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:38,560
that he realized that he had

1721
01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:40,560
he was seeing something that was not

1722
01:10:45,110 --> 01:10:42,159
human and and that

1723
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:45,120
was the crux of the the thing that

1724
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:46,719
bothered him the rest of his life that

1725
01:10:50,709 --> 01:10:49,040
he just finally came to terms with

1726
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:50,719
because towards the end his last

1727
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:52,239
interview and i referenced all these

1728
01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:53,920
links in the book was

1729
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:56,239
2008 i think on ufo hunters where he

1730
01:11:00,630 --> 01:10:57,440
said you know

1731
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:00,640
uh the creatures i don't know where

1732
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:02,159
they're from but they're not from around

1733
01:11:04,470 --> 01:11:02,880
here

1734
01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:04,480
and that was one of the few times i'd

1735
01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:06,239
ever heard him take creatures and so

1736
01:11:10,630 --> 01:11:07,840
i think he'd come to the realization

1737
01:11:13,030 --> 01:11:10,640
that they weren't of human origin which

1738
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:13,040
being a kind of a devout catholic was

1739
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:14,640
really tough for him to

1740
01:11:19,110 --> 01:11:17,760
come to grips with and um that brings up

1741
01:11:20,950 --> 01:11:19,120
you know one of the interesting things

1742
01:11:23,270 --> 01:11:20,960
that i found in the book was a

1743
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:23,280
a person that approached me when tony

1744
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:24,880
and i spoke at the

1745
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:29,360
2006 mufon conference in orlando florida

1746
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,840
a physical scientist approached me and

1747
01:11:35,990 --> 01:11:33,040
told me he had

1748
01:11:37,669 --> 01:11:36,000
run intolani and socorro this is in the

1749
01:11:40,229 --> 01:11:37,679
book of course but

1750
01:11:41,189 --> 01:11:40,239
lonnie is seen his radiation badge and

1751
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:41,199
found out he was a

1752
01:11:44,870 --> 01:11:43,360
you know radiation scientist and had

1753
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:44,880
taken him down to the site and told him

1754
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:45,840
what happened and

1755
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:47,760
asked lonnie do you think i got a dose

1756
01:11:50,709 --> 01:11:49,199
of radiation

1757
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:50,719
which is interesting because that was in

1758
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:53,440
95 96 i think

1759
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:56,320
that he ran into this guy 30 years after

1760
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:57,360
the event

1761
01:12:00,470 --> 01:11:58,880
he was still concerned that he might

1762
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:00,480
have gotten a you know a dose of

1763
01:12:03,270 --> 01:12:02,320
radiation from that blue flame that came

1764
01:12:07,189 --> 01:12:03,280
out

1765
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:07,199
so it's just the the the creatures were

1766
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:08,400
definitely there's

1767
01:12:12,470 --> 01:12:10,640
the thing is when you and ray found this

1768
01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:12,480
out early and i pretty much confirmed

1769
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:13,120
there's no

1770
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:17,520
found that use

1771
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:19,760
small people or midgets you know

1772
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:22,239
whatever the correct term would be

1773
01:12:27,189 --> 01:12:24,640
uh you didn't use people that were four

1774
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:27,199
feet tall to fly any

1775
01:12:30,870 --> 01:12:30,080
black project that we've ever uncovered

1776
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:30,880
and so

1777
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:33,360
the fact right away that the creatures

1778
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:35,120
were four feet tall and kind of seem to

1779
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:36,960
be in some type of uniform

1780
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:39,280
maybe for breathing purposes or whatever

1781
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:40,640
just tells you that he

1782
01:12:45,189 --> 01:12:42,880
you know they prob they weren't human

1783
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:45,199
and lonnie was definitely

1784
01:12:48,070 --> 01:12:46,719
that was the turning point in his life

1785
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:48,080
where he had to look at things a

1786
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:49,679
completely different way

1787
01:12:56,070 --> 01:12:53,040
well the the entire event uh

1788
01:12:59,030 --> 01:12:56,080
and the more that i look at it is

1789
01:13:01,110 --> 01:12:59,040
the entire event from when he pulled up

1790
01:13:02,630 --> 01:13:01,120
to when he ran back to his car

1791
01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:02,640
and the craft took off we're only

1792
01:13:08,149 --> 01:13:04,880
talking about a couple of minutes here

1793
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:08,159
and lonnie thought in the very beginning

1794
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:09,280
that he was like

1795
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:10,880
on a rescue mission this was an

1796
01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:13,440
overturned car we've got injured people

1797
01:13:17,669 --> 01:13:15,040
he's got to get up there and see what's

1798
01:13:18,229 --> 01:13:17,679
going on when he went up to the crest of

1799
01:13:20,470 --> 01:13:18,239
the hill

1800
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:20,480
sees that it's not an overturned car

1801
01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:21,920
it's a craft

1802
01:13:26,470 --> 01:13:24,719
resting on four legs then he's that he's

1803
01:13:29,590 --> 01:13:26,480
studying that part of it

1804
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:29,600
then he sees these two creatures

1805
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:33,199
one of them turns and looks at him

1806
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:36,000
that freaks him out doesn't it and and

1807
01:13:41,110 --> 01:13:37,920
he takes off running

1808
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:41,120
um and it's uh uh

1809
01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:43,199
for him the whole thing was shocking at

1810
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,400
that point because

1811
01:13:47,669 --> 01:13:46,480
it was no longer an overturned car with

1812
01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:47,679
injured people

1813
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:49,280
that he thought he was dealing with it

1814
01:13:55,750 --> 01:13:52,800
was something else altogether right

1815
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:55,760
yeah when he was looking down at the the

1816
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:57,600
two didn't seem to notice him and then

1817
01:14:00,149 --> 01:13:58,400
you know as he

1818
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,159
as he got to one of his closest

1819
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:02,320
approaches one of them turned

1820
01:14:06,470 --> 01:14:04,719
and kind of jumped it seemed startled to

1821
01:14:09,750 --> 01:14:06,480
see him driving up

1822
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:09,760
and so lonnie then lost sight of them

1823
01:14:13,990 --> 01:14:12,880
when he got out of his car he heard the

1824
01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:14,000
creatures apparently

1825
01:14:17,350 --> 01:14:15,840
were on the other side of the craft

1826
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:17,360
facing away from run

1827
01:14:21,430 --> 01:14:20,159
so he heard two loud slams and they

1828
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:21,440
reminded him of

1829
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:25,440
like a tank slam um but two slams might

1830
01:14:29,189 --> 01:14:26,719
mean a double held

1831
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:29,199
um you know crafts you know if it

1832
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:31,040
especially if it penetrated atmosphere

1833
01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:31,920
but

1834
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,880
it was two very loud slams like there

1835
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:36,640
had been two doors open and shut

1836
01:14:41,590 --> 01:14:39,760
and then um the craft lifted up of the

1837
01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:41,600
war that's when he started running

1838
01:14:46,390 --> 01:14:44,719
ran into his bumper his prescription uh

1839
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:46,400
which were kind of like reader's glasses

1840
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:47,440
came off

1841
01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:49,360
um but he witnessed a whole event with

1842
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:51,040
his glasses on and then he

1843
01:14:54,149 --> 01:14:52,320
he was kind of freaked out he thought it

1844
01:14:56,149 --> 01:14:54,159
was going to blow up he had hit the

1845
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:56,159
ground because his army training

1846
01:14:59,189 --> 01:14:57,520
he turned his head away and hit the

1847
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:59,199
ground when he heard this war

1848
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:00,960
then when it went silent he looked up

1849
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:02,800
again it was just sitting there

1850
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:04,400
and that's when it just kind of rolled

1851
01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:05,920
off so the whole event

1852
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:07,679
it's interesting because i found an

1853
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:10,400
interview it was about two minutes 45

1854
01:15:13,990 --> 01:15:12,320
seconds but then i found an interview

1855
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:14,000
where he speculated it might have been

1856
01:15:16,870 --> 01:15:14,960
four minutes

1857
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:16,880
which could just be a confabulation of

1858
01:15:20,229 --> 01:15:18,480
time but

1859
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:20,239
you know when you're when you have an

1860
01:15:25,030 --> 01:15:21,760
event like that um

1861
01:15:27,110 --> 01:15:25,040
that's especially so bizarre time kind

1862
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:27,120
of stretches out so who knows how long

1863
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:28,719
it really was but

1864
01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:31,440
it was very brief it's just that he was

1865
01:15:33,990 --> 01:15:33,520
so close and there was so much evidence

1866
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:34,000
left

1867
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:37,199
after the fact that

1868
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:39,360
uh you know if you just imagine going

1869
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:41,600
through something like that yourself

1870
01:15:45,110 --> 01:15:43,199
it'd be hard to kind of come to grips

1871
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:45,120
with it after you know after a while you

1872
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:46,880
have to talk to somebody which he did he

1873
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:48,560
talked to his priest and

1874
01:15:51,910 --> 01:15:50,239
there were certain people in his family

1875
01:15:52,470 --> 01:15:51,920
he would tell things to but he never

1876
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:52,480
really

1877
01:15:57,510 --> 01:15:55,360
let it out he just kind of came kind of

1878
01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:57,520
settled with it at a point

1879
01:16:00,709 --> 01:16:00,159
everybody did say that he was much more

1880
01:16:03,430 --> 01:16:00,719
quiet

1881
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:03,440
after the event he just it wasn't

1882
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:05,199
something that you asked about or

1883
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:06,960
brought up if he talked about it he

1884
01:16:09,750 --> 01:16:08,400
brought it up himself but you would

1885
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:09,760
never bring the subject up

1886
01:16:13,750 --> 01:16:12,320
you would never grill him about it was

1887
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,760
just something that if you want to talk

1888
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:15,600
about it he might go there

1889
01:16:20,790 --> 01:16:18,880
if not you never you know

1890
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:20,800
started talking about that incident with

1891
01:16:26,709 --> 01:16:23,040
him well one of the things

1892
01:16:31,669 --> 01:16:26,719
that is part of our dna is that

1893
01:16:33,270 --> 01:16:31,679
we recognize the human face

1894
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:33,280
that's that's that's what you do when

1895
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:35,760
you're a baby you know your mom's face

1896
01:16:40,709 --> 01:16:38,239
right you are able to pick faces out in

1897
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:40,719
a crowd you can see the human face is

1898
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:41,280
what we

1899
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:45,120
identify with first it's our dna

1900
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:48,400
he never as far as i know

1901
01:16:55,110 --> 01:16:51,600
um he never described uh

1902
01:16:58,229 --> 01:16:55,120
human features when describing

1903
01:16:59,430 --> 01:16:58,239
uh these these creatures and he never

1904
01:17:03,590 --> 01:16:59,440
said anything about

1905
01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:03,600
a human face and if that's what he saw

1906
01:17:07,350 --> 01:17:06,719
right he would describe that but he

1907
01:17:11,430 --> 01:17:07,360
never

1908
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:11,440
did quite go there did he

1909
01:17:15,830 --> 01:17:14,159
yeah he said you know humanoid is just a

1910
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:15,840
term for something that has a head two

1911
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:17,760
arms and two legs and it's built like us

1912
01:17:20,870 --> 01:17:20,239
but right the diminished nice yeah and

1913
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:20,880
he never

1914
01:17:23,910 --> 01:17:22,640
he when they asked him i said you know

1915
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:23,920
when walter schroed

1916
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:26,239
asked him the local radio station did

1917
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:27,120
they have any

1918
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:30,320
head could you tell and mine just goes

1919
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:32,640
no i couldn't tell you know it's

1920
01:17:36,390 --> 01:17:34,640
it was just like you know just like a

1921
01:17:39,030 --> 01:17:36,400
white uniform so

1922
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:39,040
either he didn't want to say any details

1923
01:17:42,630 --> 01:17:39,920
that he saw

1924
01:17:43,830 --> 01:17:42,640
or he he couldn't discern anybody

1925
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,840
certainly couldn't discern that they

1926
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:45,120
were human that

1927
01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:47,440
your point is correct he didn't see eyes

1928
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:48,560
in the mouth and

1929
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:51,840
ears or you know a military insignia or

1930
01:17:56,550 --> 01:17:53,280
anything like that

1931
01:17:58,630 --> 01:17:56,560
did it would it indicate to you and

1932
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:58,640
it seems like it almost went this

1933
01:18:02,149 --> 01:18:00,239
direction a couple of times

1934
01:18:06,149 --> 01:18:02,159
do you think that these creatures were

1935
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,310
i think that they were probably in some

1936
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:10,560
type of suit it sounded like there was

1937
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:13,280
you know it's funny how our suits that

1938
01:18:16,229 --> 01:18:14,880
our astronauts are wearing are evolving

1939
01:18:17,590 --> 01:18:16,239
they're going to eventually be these

1940
01:18:20,870 --> 01:18:17,600
skin tight

1941
01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:20,880
very strong very thin materials that are

1942
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:22,800
almost like a second skin

1943
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:25,040
and i think uh you know that they might

1944
01:18:27,910 --> 01:18:26,000
have had something like

1945
01:18:29,189 --> 01:18:27,920
that on because it doesn't sound like

1946
01:18:31,270 --> 01:18:29,199
they were

1947
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:31,280
i didn't hear you know a lot of cases

1948
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:32,640
that you think might be good

1949
01:18:36,709 --> 01:18:35,840
ufo landing cases you hear about devices

1950
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:36,719
or gear

1951
01:18:39,990 --> 01:18:39,520
or uniforms there was just none of that

1952
01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:40,000
it just

1953
01:18:43,350 --> 01:18:42,000
seemed like the craft was kind of an

1954
01:18:45,270 --> 01:18:43,360
off-white

1955
01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:45,280
the two creatures were white they were

1956
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:48,080
just very small very tiny

1957
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:50,719
um and there were what was it was funny

1958
01:18:54,070 --> 01:18:52,000
because there were two round

1959
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:54,080
indentations in the ground besides the

1960
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:57,280
the four landing gear that seemed to be

1961
01:19:00,149 --> 01:18:57,760
like

1962
01:19:01,430 --> 01:19:00,159
maybe perhaps a ladder that had shifted

1963
01:19:03,350 --> 01:19:01,440
when weight came down

1964
01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:03,360
and then there were almost what was

1965
01:19:06,550 --> 01:19:05,920
described as paw prints or two parallel

1966
01:19:08,950 --> 01:19:06,560
bars

1967
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:08,960
like when the where the creatures were

1968
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:11,280
standing there were these strange prints

1969
01:19:15,189 --> 01:19:13,199
and the same type of prints were found

1970
01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:15,199
in lamidera

1971
01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:16,960
which is either a copycat or as

1972
01:19:19,350 --> 01:19:18,320
interesting because it might be the same

1973
01:19:20,709 --> 01:19:19,360
craft but

1974
01:19:22,630 --> 01:19:20,719
it was just interesting there was no

1975
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:22,640
footprints there for many humans there

1976
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:23,040
weren't

1977
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:24,640
tennis shoe marks or boot marks or

1978
01:19:30,070 --> 01:19:26,800
anything like that so

1979
01:19:31,590 --> 01:19:30,080
it's just even if it lasted two and a

1980
01:19:34,149 --> 01:19:31,600
half three minutes the amount

1981
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:34,159
of detail that lonnie was able to

1982
01:19:36,950 --> 01:19:34,800
remember

1983
01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:36,960
is astounding and it just is a testament

1984
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:38,800
to him being kind of a perfect witness

1985
01:19:40,870 --> 01:19:39,520
because

1986
01:19:42,630 --> 01:19:40,880
he didn't even know he's looking at the

1987
01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:42,640
time he wouldn't immediately go i'm

1988
01:19:45,910 --> 01:19:44,239
seeing the ufo and aliens he

1989
01:19:48,310 --> 01:19:45,920
he just was baffled by what he was

1990
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:48,320
seeing he was trying to figure out

1991
01:19:51,750 --> 01:19:50,880
and even after the case i think sergeant

1992
01:19:54,470 --> 01:19:51,760
chavez

1993
01:19:55,110 --> 01:19:54,480
thinks that it was a black project and

1994
01:19:57,590 --> 01:19:55,120
that's why

1995
01:19:58,870 --> 01:19:57,600
if he did see the craft leaving which it

1996
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:58,880
seems like he might have

1997
01:20:02,870 --> 01:20:01,280
caught a glimpse of the craft leaving he

1998
01:20:04,149 --> 01:20:02,880
got there so quickly

1999
01:20:05,910 --> 01:20:04,159
that he didn't want to talk about it

2000
01:20:07,350 --> 01:20:05,920
because he figured it's a black project

2001
01:20:08,709 --> 01:20:07,360
i'll get into trouble and there's no

2002
01:20:12,070 --> 01:20:08,719
point in bringing it up

2003
01:20:14,629 --> 01:20:12,080
now uh captain holder of the air force

2004
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:14,639
uh has spoken uh publicly about this

2005
01:20:19,270 --> 01:20:15,760
case and of course

2006
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:19,280
so is heineken heinek did send uh

2007
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:22,480
letters and things out describing

2008
01:20:29,669 --> 01:20:25,679
and including chavez all describing lani

2009
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:29,679
zamora as not only honest

2010
01:20:36,629 --> 01:20:33,120
but lonnie saw what he saw he saw

2011
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:36,639
a craft land and take off um

2012
01:20:41,510 --> 01:20:39,120
and we have to take this very very

2013
01:20:43,990 --> 01:20:41,520
serious and that is coming from

2014
01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:44,000
heinek and and captain holder who was

2015
01:20:48,790 --> 01:20:47,199
from the air force right

2016
01:20:50,629 --> 01:20:48,800
yeah captain holder was the up range

2017
01:20:51,030 --> 01:20:50,639
commander he was called to get down

2018
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:51,040
there

2019
01:20:56,310 --> 01:20:53,679
uh quickly i think he lived in socorro

2020
01:20:58,870 --> 01:20:56,320
or pretty close to the outskirts

2021
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:58,880
but you know dr lincoln lapaz who

2022
01:21:04,149 --> 01:21:00,480
investigated the green meteorite

2023
01:21:08,229 --> 01:21:07,189
he also you know knew lonnie to be an

2024
01:21:10,229 --> 01:21:08,239
upstanding guy

2025
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:10,239
everybody that met lonnie knew he was

2026
01:21:13,990 --> 01:21:11,760
telling the truth

2027
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:14,000
he was you know you could tell he was

2028
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:16,080
freaked out by the whole thing but

2029
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:17,600
that's why i put a chapter in there

2030
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:19,679
about lions more because

2031
01:21:24,310 --> 01:21:22,320
as we dug into these hoax theories about

2032
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:24,320
lonnie getting pranked by college

2033
01:21:27,430 --> 01:21:24,880
students

2034
01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:27,440
you know we realized that lonnie didn't

2035
01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:29,920
really piss anybody off in town he was a

2036
01:21:33,750 --> 01:21:31,360
good guy he would sometimes

2037
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:33,760
let let guys off he'd try to hit his

2038
01:21:37,270 --> 01:21:35,360
quota for sure

2039
01:21:39,510 --> 01:21:37,280
but he didn't do anything to really

2040
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:39,520
upset college students or anybody there

2041
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:39,840
he

2042
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:47,040
you know lived a just a a hard working

2043
01:21:49,750 --> 01:21:47,760
life and

2044
01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:49,760
trying to make a living for his wife and

2045
01:21:53,590 --> 01:21:50,800
his kids

2046
01:21:55,669 --> 01:21:53,600
and so he uh there was absolutely

2047
01:21:57,990 --> 01:21:55,679
nothing i found out that would

2048
01:21:59,750 --> 01:21:58,000
indicate that he would want to fabricate

2049
01:22:01,189 --> 01:21:59,760
a story like this because it made his

2050
01:22:03,830 --> 01:22:01,199
life miserable

2051
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:03,840
and it wouldn't make any sense for a

2052
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:05,600
person like this to

2053
01:22:11,270 --> 01:22:09,120
create this story um and

2054
01:22:13,510 --> 01:22:11,280
really you couldn't recreate the scene

2055
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:13,520
even if you tried to make a hoax the

2056
01:22:16,950 --> 01:22:14,960
the fact that the four landing

2057
01:22:18,550 --> 01:22:16,960
impressions were later determined have

2058
01:22:21,750 --> 01:22:18,560
been caused by a nine-ton

2059
01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:21,760
vehicle landing at a slight angle and

2060
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:23,600
departing the slight angle or just

2061
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:24,560
things that

2062
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:26,880
hoaxers wouldn't think of and beyond the

2063
01:22:29,830 --> 01:22:28,320
you know the bush that was burned in

2064
01:22:31,590 --> 01:22:29,840
half and the

2065
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:31,600
metal that was left on a rock there's

2066
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:33,280
just a lot of evidence that

2067
01:22:36,390 --> 01:22:35,360
and even the blue book investigators

2068
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:36,400
notes say

2069
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:38,000
we haven't yet determined the vehicle

2070
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:39,920
that landed in the desert so they keep

2071
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:41,600
calling the vehicle that means something

2072
01:22:46,870 --> 01:22:42,960
landed there

2073
01:22:48,149 --> 01:22:46,880
uh chavez says that when he arrived on

2074
01:22:50,629 --> 01:22:48,159
the scene

2075
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:50,639
uh one of the bushes was still burning

2076
01:22:55,110 --> 01:22:51,440
at that point

2077
01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:55,120
right it was still smoldering yeah

2078
01:22:58,310 --> 01:22:57,360
it was not yeah burning wouldn't be a

2079
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:58,320
correct word and

2080
01:23:01,510 --> 01:23:00,400
bray will would jump on me if i said

2081
01:23:03,270 --> 01:23:01,520
that um

2082
01:23:04,790 --> 01:23:03,280
and he's corrected me many times but

2083
01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:04,800
they were smoldering

2084
01:23:08,470 --> 01:23:07,600
and they they were still kind of cool to

2085
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:08,480
the touch

2086
01:23:11,669 --> 01:23:11,120
it's interesting because the blue flame

2087
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:11,679
sliced

2088
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:14,080
one of those grease wood bushes in half

2089
01:23:16,470 --> 01:23:16,159
and those are very resinous bushes they

2090
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:16,480
take

2091
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:18,880
a lot of heat you can't really set them

2092
01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:20,000
on fire unless you put

2093
01:23:23,110 --> 01:23:22,560
a blue torch on them um and this blue

2094
01:23:25,189 --> 01:23:23,120
flame

2095
01:23:26,790 --> 01:23:25,199
it played over this bush for maybe one

2096
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:26,800
or two seconds as the craft was

2097
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:27,760
departing

2098
01:23:31,830 --> 01:23:30,320
for it to slice that creosite or grease

2099
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:31,840
wood bush in half

2100
01:23:35,350 --> 01:23:33,600
requires an incredible amount of heat

2101
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:35,360
and energy and

2102
01:23:39,830 --> 01:23:38,960
in a 9 ton vehicle if you were within 30

2103
01:23:42,550 --> 01:23:39,840
or 40 feet

2104
01:23:43,270 --> 01:23:42,560
of a propellant driven vehicle made by

2105
01:23:45,030 --> 01:23:43,280
man

2106
01:23:47,270 --> 01:23:45,040
you would have been incinerated or blown

2107
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:47,280
about 43 feet through the air

2108
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:48,960
and so the fact that lonnie was really

2109
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:50,320
close to this blue flame that was

2110
01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:52,080
knifing to the ground tells you

2111
01:23:56,310 --> 01:23:54,000
it wasn't a propellant it was some type

2112
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:56,320
of subatomic particles

2113
01:24:00,070 --> 01:23:58,320
hitting the ground at light speed that

2114
01:24:02,950 --> 01:24:00,080
was somehow lifting this

2115
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:02,960
nine ton craft through some type of

2116
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:05,760
engine that we have no idea how it works

2117
01:24:09,350 --> 01:24:08,239
now let's talk about this vhs video

2118
01:24:11,830 --> 01:24:09,360
before the break

2119
01:24:14,390 --> 01:24:11,840
uh the los socorro footage uh what was

2120
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:14,400
in this video

2121
01:24:19,110 --> 01:24:17,520
that was from the tv show sightings

2122
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:19,120
which was one of the

2123
01:24:23,990 --> 01:24:21,840
only shows to do you know an excellent

2124
01:24:25,430 --> 01:24:24,000
job on socorro they really did a good

2125
01:24:27,030 --> 01:24:25,440
recreation but

2126
01:24:28,870 --> 01:24:27,040
there had been a woman that watched

2127
01:24:30,870 --> 01:24:28,880
their recreation on the tv show

2128
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:30,880
sightings it was in the 90s

2129
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:33,120
uh the moderator was an air force former

2130
01:24:37,110 --> 01:24:34,719
air force captain i believe

2131
01:24:38,310 --> 01:24:37,120
but well done show and this woman you

2132
01:24:41,830 --> 01:24:38,320
know had submitted

2133
01:24:43,430 --> 01:24:41,840
a vhs tape that she said when she was a

2134
01:24:45,669 --> 01:24:43,440
kid

2135
01:24:47,830 --> 01:24:45,679
they had been in socorro and a policeman

2136
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:47,840
had led them to the site

2137
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:49,760
of a ufo i don't think it was lonnie but

2138
01:24:54,390 --> 01:24:51,360
i think that

2139
01:24:54,870 --> 01:24:54,400
uh her father was well connected i think

2140
01:25:00,149 --> 01:24:54,880
and

2141
01:25:01,750 --> 01:25:00,159
the policemen had told them what was

2142
01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:01,760
going on and everybody was at the side

2143
01:25:05,430 --> 01:25:03,280
of the town the whole town knew about it

2144
01:25:07,910 --> 01:25:05,440
so they were trampling all over the site

2145
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:07,920
but they went down there and he had a

2146
01:25:11,430 --> 01:25:09,120
color cam uh

2147
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:11,440
record a camera in like 64 which a lot

2148
01:25:17,110 --> 01:25:13,360
of people didn't have my dad did which

2149
01:25:20,229 --> 01:25:17,120
is so i know they were in existence um

2150
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:20,239
they were bulky and hard to load but

2151
01:25:23,430 --> 01:25:22,239
they had footage of being on the site so

2152
01:25:25,510 --> 01:25:23,440
it showed

2153
01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:25,520
this little girl going is poking a stick

2154
01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:26,880
in the burn bush

2155
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:28,400
showed all the people standing around

2156
01:25:32,310 --> 01:25:30,480
and showed some of the indentations

2157
01:25:34,709 --> 01:25:32,320
and i remembered seeing that and that

2158
01:25:36,470 --> 01:25:34,719
was the film i promised james fox that i

2159
01:25:38,790 --> 01:25:36,480
would find

2160
01:25:39,669 --> 01:25:38,800
and get to him and it took me gosh i

2161
01:25:42,149 --> 01:25:39,679
missed

2162
01:25:43,669 --> 01:25:42,159
six or eight months to find actually

2163
01:25:45,510 --> 01:25:43,679
find it i went around the world it was

2164
01:25:47,350 --> 01:25:45,520
in my own back door but that's a whole

2165
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,360
chapter in the book about

2166
01:25:53,110 --> 01:25:49,920
the research we did to try to figure out

2167
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:53,120
who was the owner of that footage

2168
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:55,679
and uh anything else significant about

2169
01:26:04,709 --> 01:26:02,470
well it was it was it was the only

2170
01:26:07,510 --> 01:26:04,719
footage i know of that was taking

2171
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:07,520
at the scene that close to the event uh

2172
01:26:10,709 --> 01:26:08,639
all the

2173
01:26:12,229 --> 01:26:10,719
the photographs and everything that were

2174
01:26:15,750 --> 01:26:12,239
previously taken

2175
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:15,760
it was reported were confiscated by the

2176
01:26:18,870 --> 01:26:18,000
the investigators the fbi and project

2177
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:18,880
blue book

2178
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:22,320
and military so it was that probably

2179
01:26:25,590 --> 01:26:22,800
didn't know

2180
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:25,600
that it actually existed but um it's

2181
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:26,960
just rare because

2182
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:30,480
it shows that there the event happened

2183
01:26:34,310 --> 01:26:30,880
and

2184
01:26:36,070 --> 01:26:34,320
things were there um it just shows

2185
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:36,080
it was only a couple days later i guess

2186
01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:38,400
but it showed the charred bushes and

2187
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:40,480
and the fact that the uh indentations

2188
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:43,040
had the ring of rocks around them

2189
01:26:47,430 --> 01:26:46,000
and it was uh it was a journey man just

2190
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:47,440
to figure out who had that

2191
01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:49,440
and where i could get it and gosh i

2192
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,639
called every production

2193
01:26:54,390 --> 01:26:53,040
place in the country and actually other

2194
01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:54,400
countries and

2195
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:57,360
i had another country offered me a copy

2196
01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:58,960
of that tape for 400

2197
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:01,760
and it turned out that a mufon member

2198
01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:03,120
had recorded it and

2199
01:27:06,470 --> 01:27:05,920
sent it to me for free in the mail now

2200
01:27:10,229 --> 01:27:06,480
there are

2201
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:10,239
also reports i've seen a couple of them

2202
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:13,600
uh that are photographs that were taken

2203
01:27:18,070 --> 01:27:14,800
at the scene

2204
01:27:21,189 --> 01:27:18,080
and one of them or two actually

2205
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:21,199
captured the object in the background

2206
01:27:30,470 --> 01:27:26,320
uh where did any of this pan out

2207
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:30,480
well the the pictures were taken by ray

2208
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:33,679
and when we we were on a

2209
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:36,400
show recently ray called in to clarify

2210
01:27:40,470 --> 01:27:37,760
on that

2211
01:27:41,590 --> 01:27:40,480
what happened was it looked like ray had

2212
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:41,600
captured

2213
01:27:45,270 --> 01:27:44,560
a couple of these crafts and the image

2214
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:45,280
itself

2215
01:27:50,550 --> 01:27:48,239
but when he finally found the negative

2216
01:27:51,750 --> 01:27:50,560
he said that the images did not show up

2217
01:27:54,310 --> 01:27:51,760
in the negative

2218
01:27:55,270 --> 01:27:54,320
and so i just have to believe that

2219
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:55,280
that's you know

2220
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:57,360
that they were an artifact or some type

2221
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:59,280
of scratching

2222
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:00,960
i mean they looked one of them looked

2223
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:02,880
just like what lonnie described so

2224
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:05,280
it it was either a tick that was smudged

2225
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:06,560
on the

2226
01:28:13,910 --> 01:28:12,239
he said it was an artifact that didn't

2227
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:13,920
show up on the negative so i have to

2228
01:28:18,229 --> 01:28:15,760
take him at his word that

2229
01:28:19,350 --> 01:28:18,239
perhaps it was nothing um it's

2230
01:28:22,070 --> 01:28:19,360
interesting because in

2231
01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:22,080
and one of the pictures that i got from

2232
01:28:27,110 --> 01:28:23,679
the blue book files that had

2233
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:27,120
that i believe ray took it of hynek

2234
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:29,760
taking a picture towards the departure

2235
01:28:34,149 --> 01:28:32,159
location there does seem to be something

2236
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:34,159
in the sky on the left in that image i

2237
01:28:36,629 --> 01:28:36,239
just it's really weird when you blow it

2238
01:28:38,709 --> 01:28:36,639
up

2239
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:38,719
it's kind of round and egg shaped but it

2240
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:40,400
could just be an artifact

2241
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:43,520
because those are old images but um

2242
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:46,080
there was supposedly images that were

2243
01:28:48,870 --> 01:28:48,080
taken by other people that were sent to

2244
01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:48,880
lonnie too

2245
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:51,920
but that kind of disappeared and uh it's

2246
01:28:55,510 --> 01:28:53,520
just one of those stories that

2247
01:28:56,709 --> 01:28:55,520
you you try to it's almost like trying

2248
01:28:58,390 --> 01:28:56,719
to find the alien

2249
01:29:00,070 --> 01:28:58,400
you know from roswell you keep getting

2250
01:29:01,430 --> 01:29:00,080
stories that somebody has the image or

2251
01:29:04,709 --> 01:29:01,440
have the picture and it

2252
01:29:07,990 --> 01:29:04,719
just never pans out our guest tonight is

2253
01:29:09,669 --> 01:29:08,000
yeah oh i'm sorry ben go ahead so

2254
01:29:11,590 --> 01:29:09,679
you know i thought we had something with

2255
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:11,600
ray's picture but ray said that those

2256
01:29:14,629 --> 01:29:12,719
images

2257
01:29:16,790 --> 01:29:14,639
what we saw in the picture itself were

2258
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:16,800
not in the negative so we have to

2259
01:29:20,709 --> 01:29:19,040
we have to determine that they were just

2260
01:29:21,189 --> 01:29:20,719
artifacts that were scratched into the

2261
01:29:23,350 --> 01:29:21,199
image

2262
01:29:25,350 --> 01:29:23,360
yeah when i saw the pictures i was like

2263
01:29:28,149 --> 01:29:25,360
ah-ha

2264
01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:28,159
there is something there but they're not

2265
01:29:32,149 --> 01:29:28,560
in

2266
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:32,159
that question

2267
01:29:36,470 --> 01:29:34,880
our guest tonight ben moss and his new

2268
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:36,480
book which is out

2269
01:29:40,310 --> 01:29:39,440
uh you can go to ben's facebook page you

2270
01:29:42,790 --> 01:29:40,320
can click right there

2271
01:29:45,030 --> 01:29:42,800
send him a a private message it's called

2272
01:29:47,830 --> 01:29:45,040
not of this world the 1964

2273
01:29:48,790 --> 01:29:47,840
socorro ufo with humanoids witness

2274
01:29:50,950 --> 01:29:48,800
policeman

2275
01:29:52,709 --> 01:29:50,960
lonnie zamora let's take our break right

2276
01:29:54,629 --> 01:29:52,719
here this is fade to black

2277
01:29:55,910 --> 01:29:54,639
i'm your host jimmy church more with ben

2278
01:29:58,870 --> 01:29:55,920
when we come back

2279
01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:58,880
now when we return we're going to talk

2280
01:30:02,070 --> 01:30:00,080
about that symbol

2281
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:02,080
on the outside of the craft this is

2282
01:30:05,830 --> 01:30:03,280
where things for me get

2283
01:30:22,149 --> 01:30:05,840
really crazy stay with us this is fade

2284
01:30:28,390 --> 01:30:25,350
way out here we listen to jimmy church

2285
01:30:30,229 --> 01:30:28,400
you're listening to fade to black

2286
01:30:31,430 --> 01:30:30,239
always on the edge of the hottest

2287
01:30:38,850 --> 01:30:31,440
alternative talk

2288
01:30:38,860 --> 01:30:46,830
[Applause]

2289
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:50,229
kgraradio.com

2290
01:30:54,310 --> 01:30:52,310
do you want to be an official fate or

2291
01:30:56,390 --> 01:30:54,320
not of course you do

2292
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:56,400
this is jimmy church of fade to black

2293
01:31:02,229 --> 01:30:57,920
just go to our membership

2294
01:31:05,870 --> 01:31:02,239
section at jimmychurchradio.com

2295
01:31:07,110 --> 01:31:05,880
you love talk radio then you'll love

2296
01:31:10,229 --> 01:31:07,120
talkstreamlive.com

2297
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:10,239
talk stream live is always on 24 7 with

2298
01:31:13,990 --> 01:31:12,000
the best streaming talk shows

2299
01:31:15,510 --> 01:31:14,000
find your favorite talkers and discover

2300
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:15,520
some new ones it's free

2301
01:31:19,910 --> 01:31:18,159
readily available online or on mobile

2302
01:31:21,990 --> 01:31:19,920
with any smartphone or tablet

2303
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:22,000
finding your favorite talk shows all in

2304
01:31:27,510 --> 01:31:24,639
one place has gotten a whole lot easier

2305
01:31:29,669 --> 01:31:27,520
just go to talkstreamlive.com be sure to

2306
01:31:29,990 --> 01:31:29,679
download the free apps from google play

2307
01:31:36,310 --> 01:31:30,000
or

2308
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:36,320
you listen to us and we listen to you

2309
01:31:42,830 --> 01:31:38,210
and so does the cia

2310
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:44,390
kgraradio.com

2311
01:31:49,110 --> 01:31:46,960
telepath is a weekly digital newsletter

2312
01:31:51,510 --> 01:31:49,120
filled with the latest paranormal news

2313
01:31:53,350 --> 01:31:51,520
trending topics and fresh articles from

2314
01:31:55,350 --> 01:31:53,360
some of the most popular critical

2315
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:55,360
thinkers in the community today

2316
01:31:59,430 --> 01:31:56,880
stay informed on your favorite

2317
01:32:00,310 --> 01:31:59,440
paranormal podcasts and live streaming

2318
01:32:02,229 --> 01:32:00,320
talk shows

2319
01:32:03,669 --> 01:32:02,239
interact with the telepath and upload

2320
01:32:05,669 --> 01:32:03,679
your paranormal story or

2321
01:32:06,870 --> 01:32:05,679
picks it could be featured in an

2322
01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:06,880
upcoming edition

2323
01:32:12,229 --> 01:32:09,360
sign up right now for the free telepath

2324
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:12,239
newsletter at paranormal.radio that's

2325
01:32:16,390 --> 01:32:14,880
paranormal dot radio

2326
01:32:19,270 --> 01:32:16,400
including the network you're listening

2327
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:19,280
to right now the paranormal radio app

2328
01:32:25,030 --> 01:32:22,080
free in google play and the ios app

2329
01:32:31,910 --> 01:32:27,110
you are listening to fate to black with

2330
01:32:35,510 --> 01:32:34,390
hi i'm rhys vance you're listening to

2331
01:32:38,629 --> 01:32:35,520
jimmy church

2332
01:32:39,990 --> 01:32:38,639
this is revolution the revolution will

2333
01:32:47,190 --> 01:32:40,000
not be televised

2334
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:52,830
[Music]

2335
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:57,960
ciao

2336
01:32:57,970 --> 01:33:06,830
[Music]

2337
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:10,350
so

2338
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:22,150
[Music]

2339
01:33:30,070 --> 01:33:28,390
welcome back fade to black i am your

2340
01:33:31,430 --> 01:33:30,080
host jimmy church tonight ben moss is

2341
01:33:33,350 --> 01:33:31,440
here we're talking about his new book

2342
01:33:37,030 --> 01:33:33,360
about the 1964

2343
01:33:39,669 --> 01:33:37,040
socorro ufo landing witnessed by

2344
01:33:41,990 --> 01:33:39,679
policeman lonnie zamora tomorrow night

2345
01:33:44,629 --> 01:33:42,000
right here seth breedlove joins us

2346
01:33:46,950 --> 01:33:44,639
to announce his new film the mothman

2347
01:33:48,950 --> 01:33:46,960
legacy wednesday night greg house

2348
01:33:51,030 --> 01:33:48,960
greg house talking about the singularity

2349
01:33:53,590 --> 01:33:51,040
and thursday nights another fader night

2350
01:33:55,270 --> 01:33:53,600
with open lines all night long tonight

2351
01:33:58,870 --> 01:33:55,280
it's ben moss and ben

2352
01:34:01,750 --> 01:33:58,880
when we get to um and your

2353
01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:01,760
your research and reporting on this was

2354
01:34:06,470 --> 01:34:02,880
absolutely

2355
01:34:09,910 --> 01:34:06,480
amazing uh about the red

2356
01:34:11,189 --> 01:34:09,920
symbol seen on the side of the craft by

2357
01:34:14,629 --> 01:34:11,199
lonnie

2358
01:34:16,470 --> 01:34:14,639
and it's it gets

2359
01:34:19,910 --> 01:34:16,480
twisted pretty quick here out of the

2360
01:34:23,510 --> 01:34:19,920
gate that afternoon out there in socarro

2361
01:34:27,590 --> 01:34:23,520
um now let's actually start

2362
01:34:31,270 --> 01:34:27,600
here the the symbol changed

2363
01:34:33,990 --> 01:34:31,280
that afternoon um what did lonnie

2364
01:34:35,189 --> 01:34:34,000
first say about the symbol the very

2365
01:34:39,830 --> 01:34:35,199
first reporting

2366
01:34:46,550 --> 01:34:43,830
lonnie had described to uh

2367
01:34:48,709 --> 01:34:46,560
i think it was ned lopez the dispatcher

2368
01:34:50,870 --> 01:34:48,719
or one of the officers had described

2369
01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:50,880
what lonnie told them

2370
01:34:57,109 --> 01:34:54,080
as uh el nivito

2371
01:34:57,590 --> 01:34:57,119
de le translenius uh i'm terrible smash

2372
01:35:00,790 --> 01:34:57,600
but

2373
01:35:04,310 --> 01:35:00,800
basically said and inverted v with three

2374
01:35:07,830 --> 01:35:04,320
lines underneath it and um

2375
01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:07,840
that has become a point of contention

2376
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:09,679
you know and the one thing about the

2377
01:35:13,990 --> 01:35:11,760
symbol i'll say is it's not

2378
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:14,000
it's not as important as to what the

2379
01:35:17,189 --> 01:35:15,199
true symbol was

2380
01:35:19,030 --> 01:35:17,199
as to the fact it was a symbol because

2381
01:35:19,990 --> 01:35:19,040
you have two really strange things about

2382
01:35:21,990 --> 01:35:20,000
this case

2383
01:35:23,030 --> 01:35:22,000
you have an unusually shaped craft an

2384
01:35:24,790 --> 01:35:23,040
egg shaped craft

2385
01:35:26,149 --> 01:35:24,800
and you have a craft with a symbol i

2386
01:35:28,470 --> 01:35:26,159
mean probably

2387
01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:28,480
less than one percent of the cases of

2388
01:35:35,270 --> 01:35:31,280
ufo reports have assembled on them

2389
01:35:38,470 --> 01:35:35,280
uh so the fact that the symbol was

2390
01:35:40,709 --> 01:35:38,480
uh as always problems now is is

2391
01:35:42,229 --> 01:35:40,719
probably a pretty good job by the air

2392
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:42,239
force of muddying the waters and

2393
01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:43,440
confusing

2394
01:35:46,550 --> 01:35:45,040
what was seen and there's reasons for

2395
01:35:50,070 --> 01:35:46,560
that yes there

2396
01:35:52,950 --> 01:35:50,080
are now so we have it established

2397
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:52,960
early on before and captain holder is

2398
01:35:57,189 --> 01:35:54,480
important here

2399
01:36:00,310 --> 01:35:57,199
um now captain holder uh speaking about

2400
01:36:03,669 --> 01:36:00,320
this case publicly i think it's uh

2401
01:36:06,790 --> 01:36:03,679
he's a career air force military guy

2402
01:36:07,750 --> 01:36:06,800
um by the book and appears to be a very

2403
01:36:10,790 --> 01:36:07,760
nice guy

2404
01:36:13,830 --> 01:36:10,800
and and i i think that

2405
01:36:15,030 --> 01:36:13,840
he has been pretty honest about uh

2406
01:36:17,430 --> 01:36:15,040
lonnie zamora

2407
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:17,440
and what possibly happened out there in

2408
01:36:22,390 --> 01:36:18,400
the desert

2409
01:36:25,669 --> 01:36:22,400
but that that being said the inverted

2410
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:25,679
v with the three lines uh before

2411
01:36:29,030 --> 01:36:28,560
captain holder got there was one thing

2412
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:29,040
but

2413
01:36:36,629 --> 01:36:32,560
then captain holder gets there and

2414
01:36:39,590 --> 01:36:36,639
that symbol suddenly changed

2415
01:36:40,229 --> 01:36:39,600
and is that because well why do you

2416
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:40,239
think

2417
01:36:49,430 --> 01:36:45,280
have uh run interference on this part

2418
01:36:52,550 --> 01:36:49,440
of the story uh there's a couple of good

2419
01:36:55,189 --> 01:36:52,560
reasons the first one would be

2420
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:55,199
let's put out a fake symbol so if we get

2421
01:37:00,070 --> 01:36:57,119
other reports of the craft using the

2422
01:37:03,030 --> 01:37:00,080
fake symbol that's just copycat reports

2423
01:37:04,629 --> 01:37:03,040
another reason could be look we may have

2424
01:37:05,109 --> 01:37:04,639
you know you may have seen some type of

2425
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:05,119
black

2426
01:37:08,229 --> 01:37:07,679
project with something we've never seen

2427
01:37:11,270 --> 01:37:08,239
before

2428
01:37:14,229 --> 01:37:11,280
so let us investigate the symbol you saw

2429
01:37:16,390 --> 01:37:14,239
and see if we can figure out who owns it

2430
01:37:17,669 --> 01:37:16,400
but probably the primary reason was just

2431
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:17,679
to put out

2432
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:20,000
a is something that i think holder

2433
01:37:24,149 --> 01:37:21,600
probably made up on the fly the

2434
01:37:25,750 --> 01:37:24,159
umbrella with the arrow just to see if

2435
01:37:27,270 --> 01:37:25,760
anybody else recorded it so we could

2436
01:37:30,390 --> 01:37:27,280
discount those reports

2437
01:37:32,310 --> 01:37:30,400
and you know ray and his excellent books

2438
01:37:34,470 --> 01:37:32,320
of course austin the pentagon pantry

2439
01:37:37,669 --> 01:37:34,480
you know has a letter from captain

2440
01:37:40,229 --> 01:37:37,679
holder son where he says yes my father

2441
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:40,239
told me that i had lonnie signed you

2442
01:37:43,990 --> 01:37:42,159
know an obscured symbol that i had

2443
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:44,000
changed and so

2444
01:37:47,750 --> 01:37:46,320
um just investigating the symbol itself

2445
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:47,760
was interesting because i found a

2446
01:37:52,790 --> 01:37:49,520
newspaper report that said

2447
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:52,800
it was drawn on a paper sack but then

2448
01:37:56,629 --> 01:37:55,280
dave rudiak who let me use his research

2449
01:37:58,629 --> 01:37:56,639
said it was

2450
01:38:00,310 --> 01:37:58,639
printed on a corner of a page from a

2451
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:00,320
boy's life magazine

2452
01:38:04,470 --> 01:38:02,719
that would be in the police station and

2453
01:38:04,709 --> 01:38:04,480
then you have other reports of it drawn

2454
01:38:09,510 --> 01:38:04,719
on

2455
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:09,520
probably drew the inverted video three

2456
01:38:13,510 --> 01:38:11,520
bars on a paper sack that would

2457
01:38:15,350 --> 01:38:13,520
be in the desert you know blown in there

2458
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:15,360
in this arroyo where a lot of things get

2459
01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:16,800
caught in that depression

2460
01:38:21,109 --> 01:38:18,880
they went back to the police station

2461
01:38:22,790 --> 01:38:21,119
holder drew another symbol because when

2462
01:38:24,470 --> 01:38:22,800
you look at the symbol that lonnie

2463
01:38:25,189 --> 01:38:24,480
signed that's not his handwriting on the

2464
01:38:28,550 --> 01:38:25,199
symbol

2465
01:38:30,470 --> 01:38:28,560
signed it any handwriting

2466
01:38:32,470 --> 01:38:30,480
expert will tell you those are two

2467
01:38:34,950 --> 01:38:32,480
different forms of handwriting

2468
01:38:36,790 --> 01:38:34,960
and we have holder son confirming that

2469
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:36,800
his father obscured the symbol so

2470
01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:38,800
it makes sense from the intelligence

2471
01:38:42,550 --> 01:38:40,480
point of view to

2472
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:42,560
not let that out keep a few things close

2473
01:38:48,790 --> 01:38:44,239
to the best

2474
01:38:51,910 --> 01:38:48,800
why do you and the third possibility is

2475
01:38:54,709 --> 01:38:51,920
holder knew that inverted v with the

2476
01:38:57,510 --> 01:38:54,719
three stripes meant something else

2477
01:38:57,990 --> 01:38:57,520
and that couldn't get out into the

2478
01:39:00,149 --> 01:38:58,000
public

2479
01:39:02,070 --> 01:39:00,159
and it had to get squashed right away

2480
01:39:04,629 --> 01:39:02,080
that's a third possibility that's pretty

2481
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:07,669
yeah i mean the the link that i put to

2482
01:39:12,149 --> 01:39:09,360
captain holder's interview

2483
01:39:14,310 --> 01:39:12,159
uh he seems pretty baffled but in that

2484
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:14,320
interview when he talks about

2485
01:39:17,750 --> 01:39:15,920
you know he believed lonnie and believed

2486
01:39:19,910 --> 01:39:17,760
that he was an honest man

2487
01:39:21,189 --> 01:39:19,920
he he did say you know we thought it was

2488
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:21,199
maybe a

2489
01:39:24,629 --> 01:39:23,040
you know a vertical takeoff vehicle or

2490
01:39:26,709 --> 01:39:24,639
something like that but

2491
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:26,719
the thing to remember is that he was the

2492
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:28,320
upper range commander at white sands so

2493
01:39:32,149 --> 01:39:29,760
he knew everything that flew

2494
01:39:33,270 --> 01:39:32,159
on that day he also could access the

2495
01:39:36,070 --> 01:39:33,280
records

2496
01:39:38,149 --> 01:39:36,080
and um could determine that as they did

2497
01:39:40,149 --> 01:39:38,159
that nothing was flying

2498
01:39:41,669 --> 01:39:40,159
at that time in their air at the day and

2499
01:39:42,709 --> 01:39:41,679
actually a lot of the radars weren't

2500
01:39:45,830 --> 01:39:42,719
even on

2501
01:39:49,270 --> 01:39:45,840
and somebody now has this

2502
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:49,280
inverted v with three stripes

2503
01:39:55,669 --> 01:39:52,400
uh under it uh has that been seen

2504
01:39:59,030 --> 01:39:55,679
anywhere else in the world

2505
01:39:59,430 --> 01:39:59,040
there was one report that i did find and

2506
01:40:02,790 --> 01:39:59,440
it was

2507
01:40:06,229 --> 01:40:02,800
uh i believe the look corral lorenza

2508
01:40:09,270 --> 01:40:06,239
had uncovered this report of a

2509
01:40:11,189 --> 01:40:09,280
air force officer that was somewhere

2510
01:40:14,950 --> 01:40:11,199
near white sands and he said look i

2511
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,960
i just saw the the craft the x-shaped

2512
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:16,239
craft

2513
01:40:19,910 --> 01:40:17,920
and they said what did it look like and

2514
01:40:21,830 --> 01:40:19,920
he said just it looked like

2515
01:40:23,830 --> 01:40:21,840
just like what lonnie zamora had

2516
01:40:26,870 --> 01:40:23,840
described with the symbol

2517
01:40:30,149 --> 01:40:26,880
and then he said it landed at um

2518
01:40:32,229 --> 01:40:30,159
i believe hollerman and then they

2519
01:40:33,910 --> 01:40:32,239
put some pressure the lorenzos were good

2520
01:40:34,709 --> 01:40:33,920
investigators with our pro back in the

2521
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:34,719
day

2522
01:40:37,830 --> 01:40:36,320
they put a little pressure on the base

2523
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:37,840
and the base admitted that they had

2524
01:40:41,669 --> 01:40:39,679
objects on radar that day and then you

2525
01:40:44,550 --> 01:40:41,679
have a report of a landed craft

2526
01:40:46,070 --> 01:40:44,560
with four legs an egg shaped craft that

2527
01:40:49,109 --> 01:40:46,080
a military officer

2528
01:40:49,510 --> 01:40:49,119
unloaded this pistol at at hollerman and

2529
01:40:51,990 --> 01:40:49,520
so

2530
01:40:52,709 --> 01:40:52,000
there's there's definitely corroborating

2531
01:40:55,590 --> 01:40:52,719
evidence

2532
01:40:58,070 --> 01:40:55,600
on the same in the same time period that

2533
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:58,080
this craft was seen in multiple places

2534
01:41:02,149 --> 01:41:00,560
um the guy in the plane that saw we

2535
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:02,159
never got his name or anything but it's

2536
01:41:05,430 --> 01:41:03,360
in the report that the

2537
01:41:07,350 --> 01:41:05,440
air force admitted that they had

2538
01:41:10,070 --> 01:41:07,360
something flying around on radar

2539
01:41:11,669 --> 01:41:10,080
when you know the night of the event the

2540
01:41:13,189 --> 01:41:11,679
radars were usually and it

2541
01:41:15,189 --> 01:41:13,199
wasn't unusual at the time were turned

2542
01:41:17,350 --> 01:41:15,199
off because nothing was going on in that

2543
01:41:19,590 --> 01:41:17,360
area or out in the middle of nowhere but

2544
01:41:21,590 --> 01:41:19,600
um they apparently caught it like a day

2545
01:41:22,390 --> 01:41:21,600
or two later when this other incident

2546
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:22,400
happened

2547
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:25,520
now what what do you make of the new

2548
01:41:29,350 --> 01:41:26,239
version

2549
01:41:30,790 --> 01:41:29,360
of this symbol uh apparently created by

2550
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:30,800
captain holder

2551
01:41:37,189 --> 01:41:33,199
uh what did that resemble did that look

2552
01:41:40,629 --> 01:41:39,669
it looked a little bit like the astro

2553
01:41:43,430 --> 01:41:40,639
power symbol

2554
01:41:44,709 --> 01:41:43,440
that was uncovered in the research but

2555
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:44,719
um

2556
01:41:48,229 --> 01:41:46,960
it had an arrow with kind of a bar over

2557
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:48,239
the top of it but

2558
01:41:52,310 --> 01:41:50,560
when we when we investigated astropower

2559
01:41:54,149 --> 01:41:52,320
they were a software company they never

2560
01:41:56,229 --> 01:41:54,159
made any flying vehicles

2561
01:41:57,750 --> 01:41:56,239
um there was a paper company that also

2562
01:42:00,550 --> 01:41:57,760
had a symbol like that but they were

2563
01:42:04,149 --> 01:42:02,229
i looked at those symbols too and they

2564
01:42:06,550 --> 01:42:04,159
they they weren't even close

2565
01:42:09,030 --> 01:42:06,560
you know to me i mean lonnie would make

2566
01:42:10,870 --> 01:42:09,040
that kind of mistake

2567
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:10,880
yeah and he was close he said they were

2568
01:42:16,229 --> 01:42:12,800
about two and a half feet tall

2569
01:42:18,310 --> 01:42:16,239
and so and in red and they seemed to

2570
01:42:19,990 --> 01:42:18,320
and you know the v seems to be pointing

2571
01:42:23,189 --> 01:42:20,000
to the thruster where the blue flame

2572
01:42:26,790 --> 01:42:23,199
came out the three bars might signify

2573
01:42:30,149 --> 01:42:26,800
uh radioactivity or emissions

2574
01:42:32,149 --> 01:42:30,159
of uh energy and so the

2575
01:42:33,510 --> 01:42:32,159
the v with three bars could just mean

2576
01:42:35,189 --> 01:42:33,520
that you know don't stand here when

2577
01:42:36,790 --> 01:42:35,199
engaged you'll get cooked it could just

2578
01:42:38,950 --> 01:42:36,800
be a warning sign

2579
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:38,960
red is the color of fire it's the color

2580
01:42:43,030 --> 01:42:40,880
of blood it's usually

2581
01:42:44,229 --> 01:42:43,040
for humans at least it's it's a symbol

2582
01:42:45,910 --> 01:42:44,239
of danger

2583
01:42:48,070 --> 01:42:45,920
but that might be more of a universal

2584
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:48,080
thing it just seemed like

2585
01:42:51,189 --> 01:42:49,840
the thruster was located exactly where

2586
01:42:53,189 --> 01:42:51,199
that v was pointing

2587
01:42:55,270 --> 01:42:53,199
and when i looked up the symbol trying

2588
01:42:55,750 --> 01:42:55,280
to find a something else that resembled

2589
01:42:57,270 --> 01:42:55,760
it

2590
01:42:59,109 --> 01:42:57,280
the only thing that was close was

2591
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:59,119
radiation symbols it kind of looked a

2592
01:43:03,189 --> 01:43:01,199
little bit like a radiation symbol

2593
01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:03,199
there was an alchemy symbol that was

2594
01:43:07,510 --> 01:43:05,679
close to had an inverted v with one bar

2595
01:43:08,470 --> 01:43:07,520
but that's that's still for some type of

2596
01:43:11,430 --> 01:43:08,480
metal

2597
01:43:14,070 --> 01:43:11,440
so i really never found in any records

2598
01:43:15,109 --> 01:43:14,080
of any writings an inverted v with three

2599
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:15,119
bars having

2600
01:43:19,030 --> 01:43:17,280
any meaning whatsoever now what what do

2601
01:43:20,070 --> 01:43:19,040
we deduce from that what have you

2602
01:43:21,910 --> 01:43:20,080
deduced from that

2603
01:43:23,510 --> 01:43:21,920
why change the symbol i know you just

2604
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:23,520
gave me two reasons but

2605
01:43:28,550 --> 01:43:26,719
if this is extraterrestrial

2606
01:43:30,390 --> 01:43:28,560
which everything is pointing in that

2607
01:43:32,070 --> 01:43:30,400
direction

2608
01:43:34,070 --> 01:43:32,080
and you combine everything else that

2609
01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:34,080
lonnie has described the roar then it

2610
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:35,520
was silent

2611
01:43:39,350 --> 01:43:37,760
the speed that it flew away of course

2612
01:43:41,109 --> 01:43:39,360
the small creatures

2613
01:43:42,629 --> 01:43:41,119
we have that and we have a symbol that

2614
01:43:46,229 --> 01:43:42,639
we can't identify

2615
01:43:46,870 --> 01:43:46,239
on the side that was changed by the air

2616
01:43:49,990 --> 01:43:46,880
force

2617
01:43:51,189 --> 01:43:50,000
um and included in all the future

2618
01:43:53,270 --> 01:43:51,199
documentation

2619
01:43:54,870 --> 01:43:53,280
what do we deduce from all of this why

2620
01:43:57,270 --> 01:43:54,880
change the story

2621
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:57,280
uh why take this approach and why

2622
01:44:03,910 --> 01:44:03,590
well i think to see if anybody else came

2623
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:03,920
up

2624
01:44:07,750 --> 01:44:06,239
with this you said look i saw a craft

2625
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:07,760
but it didn't have what you told me i

2626
01:44:11,350 --> 01:44:09,520
saw a craft that had an inverted v

2627
01:44:12,709 --> 01:44:11,360
or three bars then they'd be on to

2628
01:44:15,030 --> 01:44:12,719
another sighting

2629
01:44:16,070 --> 01:44:15,040
um i think the other fear could have

2630
01:44:19,430 --> 01:44:16,080
been that

2631
01:44:20,709 --> 01:44:19,440
you know as as top secretly cleared as

2632
01:44:23,109 --> 01:44:20,719
captain holder and some of these other

2633
01:44:23,750 --> 01:44:23,119
gentlemen were they still might have run

2634
01:44:25,030 --> 01:44:23,760
into a black

2635
01:44:28,070 --> 01:44:25,040
project they weren't supposed to be

2636
01:44:29,270 --> 01:44:28,080
aware of so why not bury that symbol

2637
01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:29,280
find out if they're supposed to be

2638
01:44:32,149 --> 01:44:30,880
talking about it before they get

2639
01:44:34,149 --> 01:44:32,159
court-martialed

2640
01:44:36,229 --> 01:44:34,159
and then see if there's clearance to you

2641
01:44:38,229 --> 01:44:36,239
know just to go with the

2642
01:44:40,310 --> 01:44:38,239
you know stay with the fake symbol or

2643
01:44:42,390 --> 01:44:40,320
say okay we got it wrong it was this you

2644
01:44:43,830 --> 01:44:42,400
know there was probably a fear that

2645
01:44:45,750 --> 01:44:43,840
they were still dealing with something

2646
01:44:46,550 --> 01:44:45,760
that was so top secret they were private

2647
01:44:48,709 --> 01:44:46,560
to it

2648
01:44:52,149 --> 01:44:48,719
i knew there was something that reminded

2649
01:44:55,830 --> 01:44:52,159
me of lonnie zamora's craft

2650
01:44:59,109 --> 01:44:55,840
mork from orrick yeah that's right

2651
01:45:00,390 --> 01:44:59,119
and uh you know too close to the fire

2652
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:00,400
sometimes

2653
01:45:03,669 --> 01:45:02,719
i did i i just completely forgot about

2654
01:45:06,950 --> 01:45:03,679
that the

2655
01:45:08,950 --> 01:45:06,960
um uh and i was waiting for this it

2656
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:08,960
finally popped up in twitter

2657
01:45:15,990 --> 01:45:12,800
right well what about the tic tac

2658
01:45:19,109 --> 01:45:16,000
and uh and the descriptions

2659
01:45:19,669 --> 01:45:19,119
that uh that are modern that have

2660
01:45:21,350 --> 01:45:19,679
happened

2661
01:45:23,030 --> 01:45:21,360
recently in the last three years of

2662
01:45:25,350 --> 01:45:23,040
course you know we have this tic tac

2663
01:45:28,950 --> 01:45:25,360
incident do you think that they are

2664
01:45:34,550 --> 01:45:31,990
well there's there's a couple things

2665
01:45:35,830 --> 01:45:34,560
with the the tic tac is interesting

2666
01:45:38,070 --> 01:45:35,840
because it's very close

2667
01:45:40,550 --> 01:45:38,080
to an egg shaped object you know if you

2668
01:45:42,870 --> 01:45:40,560
if an object's moving fast enough

2669
01:45:43,750 --> 01:45:42,880
it's really hard to discern the shape

2670
01:45:46,950 --> 01:45:43,760
and

2671
01:45:48,629 --> 01:45:46,960
the tic tac is

2672
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,639
i mean it doesn't make a whole lot of

2673
01:45:52,550 --> 01:45:50,800
sense from an aerodynamic standpoint but

2674
01:45:55,669 --> 01:45:52,560
of course if these things don't need to

2675
01:45:56,310 --> 01:45:55,679
use our laws of physics you know if

2676
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:56,320
they're

2677
01:45:59,350 --> 01:45:58,000
really advanced it doesn't matter what

2678
01:46:01,590 --> 01:45:59,360
shape they are

2679
01:46:03,590 --> 01:46:01,600
um but the interesting thing and it's

2680
01:46:05,189 --> 01:46:03,600
going to come out on a show i did that

2681
01:46:06,950 --> 01:46:05,199
will be out this fall but

2682
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:06,960
when i was in socorro the second time

2683
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:08,320
with tony

2684
01:46:11,510 --> 01:46:10,639
and i was standing right at the landing

2685
01:46:13,270 --> 01:46:11,520
site

2686
01:46:15,109 --> 01:46:13,280
i noticed out of the corner of my eye

2687
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:15,119
and tony didn't see it i saw an

2688
01:46:19,270 --> 01:46:17,280
object coming over the rise and kind of

2689
01:46:22,470 --> 01:46:19,280
ground training you know just

2690
01:46:22,790 --> 01:46:22,480
rising and lowering itself in relation

2691
01:46:25,510 --> 01:46:22,800
to

2692
01:46:26,629 --> 01:46:25,520
the terrain and it was shaped like a

2693
01:46:29,910 --> 01:46:26,639
tic-tac

2694
01:46:33,830 --> 01:46:29,920
it was probably about six inches

2695
01:46:35,510 --> 01:46:33,840
long and i play i play pro tennis

2696
01:46:37,590 --> 01:46:35,520
i've played tennis at a high level i can

2697
01:46:39,350 --> 01:46:37,600
watch a tennis ball move at 120 miles an

2698
01:46:41,750 --> 01:46:39,360
hour and i was tracking this thing

2699
01:46:44,229 --> 01:46:41,760
it was definitely ground training and

2700
01:46:46,870 --> 01:46:44,239
then it went over the berm to my left

2701
01:46:48,310 --> 01:46:46,880
and then shot off into the sky and it

2702
01:46:49,030 --> 01:46:48,320
was one of the weirdest things i've ever

2703
01:46:51,270 --> 01:46:49,040
seen it was

2704
01:46:53,189 --> 01:46:51,280
about as big as my fist probably but

2705
01:46:55,910 --> 01:46:53,199
shaped like a tic-tac

2706
01:46:57,590 --> 01:46:55,920
and i i mentioned that on camera so that

2707
01:47:00,070 --> 01:46:57,600
might come out later but

2708
01:47:00,790 --> 01:47:00,080
it's just interesting that i saw that at

2709
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:00,800
the site

2710
01:47:06,470 --> 01:47:04,560
of an egg-shaped craft the tic tac i did

2711
01:47:08,390 --> 01:47:06,480
run into somebody that told me

2712
01:47:10,070 --> 01:47:08,400
on a personal side note he was a

2713
01:47:13,750 --> 01:47:10,080
physicist he said

2714
01:47:15,830 --> 01:47:13,760
that he was in california at the time

2715
01:47:17,669 --> 01:47:15,840
they were going out there was a big

2716
01:47:21,669 --> 01:47:17,679
rollout to see

2717
01:47:23,109 --> 01:47:21,679
and he was cleared that he asked what's

2718
01:47:24,550 --> 01:47:23,119
what's the big deal why is everybody

2719
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:24,560
going out to sea and he goes where

2720
01:47:31,030 --> 01:47:26,400
they're going to test the new

2721
01:47:33,270 --> 01:47:31,040
um top secret uh air force drone

2722
01:47:35,350 --> 01:47:33,280
and that's just a story i heard but you

2723
01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:35,360
know i i think the performance of the

2724
01:47:38,310 --> 01:47:37,280
tic tac if that's one of our drones and

2725
01:47:40,470 --> 01:47:38,320
we're

2726
01:47:42,550 --> 01:47:40,480
somebody's got tech that everybody else

2727
01:47:45,109 --> 01:47:42,560
should know about because uh

2728
01:47:46,550 --> 01:47:45,119
i just can't see that as being our

2729
01:47:49,590 --> 01:47:46,560
technology

2730
01:47:52,470 --> 01:47:49,600
now what about there's the

2731
01:47:53,270 --> 01:47:52,480
other rumors that have been uh around

2732
01:47:56,709 --> 01:47:53,280
socorro

2733
01:47:59,750 --> 01:47:56,719
for years that there was some

2734
01:48:02,310 --> 01:47:59,760
debris recovered what can you tell us

2735
01:48:08,629 --> 01:48:05,430
well i when we were in socorro

2736
01:48:11,510 --> 01:48:08,639
tony and i were at um a restaurant's

2737
01:48:13,109 --> 01:48:11,520
well-known great steakhouse the owner uh

2738
01:48:14,629 --> 01:48:13,119
it's funny because a lot of guys that

2739
01:48:16,149 --> 01:48:14,639
were the bartenders and

2740
01:48:18,310 --> 01:48:16,159
worked at restaurants a lot of these

2741
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:18,320
guys were engineers and a lot of them

2742
01:48:21,030 --> 01:48:20,639
had phds they just had other jobs while

2743
01:48:22,709 --> 01:48:21,040
they were

2744
01:48:24,709 --> 01:48:22,719
you know getting a degree and then they

2745
01:48:27,189 --> 01:48:24,719
you know kept doing it but

2746
01:48:28,709 --> 01:48:27,199
um this guy was an engineer also and he

2747
01:48:30,870 --> 01:48:28,719
told me that

2748
01:48:31,990 --> 01:48:30,880
a couple of kids had found what looked

2749
01:48:35,270 --> 01:48:32,000
like a computer

2750
01:48:37,669 --> 01:48:35,280
board on the ground and and it

2751
01:48:38,950 --> 01:48:37,679
showed up he had given it to his dad who

2752
01:48:40,310 --> 01:48:38,960
was an engineer

2753
01:48:42,310 --> 01:48:40,320
and they were all trying to figure out

2754
01:48:43,430 --> 01:48:42,320
what it was and in hindsight they

2755
01:48:45,510 --> 01:48:43,440
realized it was

2756
01:48:46,709 --> 01:48:45,520
it was you know modern day computer

2757
01:48:48,709 --> 01:48:46,719
electronics

2758
01:48:50,310 --> 01:48:48,719
and that's just a story i can't really

2759
01:48:51,910 --> 01:48:50,320
prove that that's true or not but then

2760
01:48:54,790 --> 01:48:51,920
when i was talking to

2761
01:48:55,669 --> 01:48:54,800
james fox he had heard through another

2762
01:48:58,070 --> 01:48:55,679
source

2763
01:48:59,430 --> 01:48:58,080
that there was something on the ground

2764
01:49:02,390 --> 01:48:59,440
that was found

2765
01:49:02,709 --> 01:49:02,400
so it was interesting to hear that from

2766
01:49:04,229 --> 01:49:02,719
him

2767
01:49:05,830 --> 01:49:04,239
finding that same information from

2768
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:05,840
another source but it's

2769
01:49:09,510 --> 01:49:08,000
it's just a story can't prove anything

2770
01:49:13,030 --> 01:49:09,520
might or might not be true

2771
01:49:14,950 --> 01:49:13,040
it's it's just gosh after 60 years or so

2772
01:49:16,790 --> 01:49:14,960
it's just tough to

2773
01:49:18,709 --> 01:49:16,800
figure out what might have might have

2774
01:49:20,550 --> 01:49:18,719
happened and the sad thing is that i

2775
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:20,560
know that lonnie's house got

2776
01:49:23,910 --> 01:49:23,280
robbed and anything that might have been

2777
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:23,920
you know

2778
01:49:28,229 --> 01:49:26,400
sitting around probably picked up in the

2779
01:49:29,510 --> 01:49:28,239
robbery and it's just a shame that that

2780
01:49:30,629 --> 01:49:29,520
happened i think that happened a couple

2781
01:49:33,910 --> 01:49:30,639
of years ago

2782
01:49:35,510 --> 01:49:33,920
after he had passed but um it's just one

2783
01:49:37,270 --> 01:49:35,520
of the stories you know you take it for

2784
01:49:40,390 --> 01:49:37,280
what it is and uh

2785
01:49:41,510 --> 01:49:40,400
it just adds to the myth of uh of the

2786
01:49:43,750 --> 01:49:41,520
whole

2787
01:49:45,830 --> 01:49:43,760
enigma we're trying to solve what's

2788
01:49:48,149 --> 01:49:45,840
ray's position today

2789
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:48,159
i mean you've had so much interaction

2790
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:50,000
with him and he was on the scene

2791
01:49:53,270 --> 01:49:52,239
and and he was collecting evidence and

2792
01:49:56,070 --> 01:49:53,280
interviewing

2793
01:49:58,390 --> 01:49:56,080
right from the very beginning what's his

2794
01:50:01,350 --> 01:49:58,400
position

2795
01:50:03,109 --> 01:50:01,360
he's the same you know e.t is really the

2796
01:50:06,390 --> 01:50:03,119
only good explanation for it

2797
01:50:08,310 --> 01:50:06,400
and you know that it

2798
01:50:11,589 --> 01:50:08,320
the the gravity of it you know also

2799
01:50:13,270 --> 01:50:11,599
pushed dr heineck in the direction to

2800
01:50:15,350 --> 01:50:13,280
stop debunking because after the

2801
01:50:18,470 --> 01:50:15,360
michigan you know

2802
01:50:19,750 --> 01:50:18,480
swamp gas fiasco and then with socorro

2803
01:50:21,669 --> 01:50:19,760
really showing him

2804
01:50:23,830 --> 01:50:21,679
what a real case looked like he went off

2805
01:50:24,790 --> 01:50:23,840
and formed kufos the center for ufo

2806
01:50:26,229 --> 01:50:24,800
studies

2807
01:50:28,390 --> 01:50:26,239
and started investigating these things

2808
01:50:31,430 --> 01:50:28,400
for real um probably still work for

2809
01:50:34,310 --> 01:50:31,440
cia late in his life but uh

2810
01:50:35,189 --> 01:50:34,320
no he was a believer at that point ray

2811
01:50:37,270 --> 01:50:35,199
believed that

2812
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:37,280
uh everything that lonnie said was true

2813
01:50:39,669 --> 01:50:38,239
all my research

2814
01:50:41,669 --> 01:50:39,679
showed that everything that lonnie said

2815
01:50:42,709 --> 01:50:41,679
was true and when you look at all the

2816
01:50:45,109 --> 01:50:42,719
evidence and all

2817
01:50:47,430 --> 01:50:45,119
the research the government did and you

2818
01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:47,440
know the documents i had that showed it

2819
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:47,920
wasn't

2820
01:50:58,950 --> 01:50:57,119
there's really nothing left to come to

2821
01:51:02,229 --> 01:50:58,960
the conclusion because

2822
01:51:04,629 --> 01:51:02,239
my my six explanations were i think

2823
01:51:05,830 --> 01:51:04,639
hallucination hoax made up story weather

2824
01:51:09,109 --> 01:51:05,840
event

2825
01:51:10,950 --> 01:51:09,119
e.t black project

2826
01:51:12,470 --> 01:51:10,960
and when you really boil it down and

2827
01:51:13,189 --> 01:51:12,480
look at all the evidence you have to

2828
01:51:15,189 --> 01:51:13,199
eliminate

2829
01:51:16,390 --> 01:51:15,199
just about everything except for the e.t

2830
01:51:19,910 --> 01:51:16,400
conclusion

2831
01:51:23,350 --> 01:51:19,920
wasn't there another eyewitness

2832
01:51:26,470 --> 01:51:23,360
account about an egg-shaped

2833
01:51:29,830 --> 01:51:26,480
object scanning

2834
01:51:30,709 --> 01:51:29,840
the mountain there with i believe a red

2835
01:51:33,510 --> 01:51:30,719
beam of light

2836
01:51:35,750 --> 01:51:33,520
hitting the ground going back and forth

2837
01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:35,760
across the mountain

2838
01:51:38,950 --> 01:51:38,320
yeah there was m mountain which has an m

2839
01:51:42,310 --> 01:51:38,960
on it uh

2840
01:51:44,870 --> 01:51:42,320
for the new mexico institute uh

2841
01:51:46,629 --> 01:51:44,880
college up there there was a craft that

2842
01:51:48,629 --> 01:51:46,639
was going back and forth almost like it

2843
01:51:51,910 --> 01:51:48,639
was searching for something

2844
01:51:53,589 --> 01:51:51,920
um and there were uh you know like we

2845
01:51:56,310 --> 01:51:53,599
said there were multiple reports there

2846
01:51:59,350 --> 01:51:56,320
were a couple of reports of people's

2847
01:52:01,589 --> 01:51:59,360
car stalling when

2848
01:52:03,109 --> 01:52:01,599
the same type of object passed over them

2849
01:52:04,629 --> 01:52:03,119
one on the same day

2850
01:52:06,709 --> 01:52:04,639
and that's interesting because when

2851
01:52:07,830 --> 01:52:06,719
lonnie drove up on this craft it was

2852
01:52:11,109 --> 01:52:07,840
landed

2853
01:52:13,109 --> 01:52:11,119
and so um

2854
01:52:14,709 --> 01:52:13,119
there was no chance for him to try to

2855
01:52:16,149 --> 01:52:14,719
turn his car on when the engine was

2856
01:52:17,189 --> 01:52:16,159
engaged to see if it interfered with

2857
01:52:18,950 --> 01:52:17,199
this car

2858
01:52:21,030 --> 01:52:18,960
you know that would indicate some type

2859
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:21,040
of electromagnetic pulse

2860
01:52:24,229 --> 01:52:23,040
but the fact that other people reported

2861
01:52:26,390 --> 01:52:24,239
their car

2862
01:52:27,830 --> 01:52:26,400
you know stopping as this object passed

2863
01:52:29,990 --> 01:52:27,840
over

2864
01:52:31,430 --> 01:52:30,000
and that area at that time tells you

2865
01:52:33,430 --> 01:52:31,440
that it you know definitely was some

2866
01:52:36,870 --> 01:52:33,440
type of exotic propulsion

2867
01:52:41,350 --> 01:52:36,880
there's one one part of this case

2868
01:52:43,270 --> 01:52:41,360
that i think all of us uh get stuck on

2869
01:52:44,790 --> 01:52:43,280
where it forces you to just go you know

2870
01:52:48,310 --> 01:52:44,800
what lonnie

2871
01:52:51,430 --> 01:52:48,320
lonnie did see what he saw and that is

2872
01:52:54,629 --> 01:52:51,440
he thought he saw an overturned

2873
01:52:57,109 --> 01:52:54,639
car and my

2874
01:52:58,870 --> 01:52:57,119
when i think of that i sometimes i

2875
01:53:01,109 --> 01:52:58,880
picture the bottom of a car

2876
01:53:02,950 --> 01:53:01,119
right which is going to be dark and that

2877
01:53:04,470 --> 01:53:02,960
wouldn't make any sense four tires

2878
01:53:06,790 --> 01:53:04,480
you're looking at the bottom of the car

2879
01:53:09,750 --> 01:53:06,800
well that would be an overturned car

2880
01:53:10,950 --> 01:53:09,760
that's not what lonnie was describing he

2881
01:53:14,070 --> 01:53:10,960
was describing

2882
01:53:15,830 --> 01:53:14,080
an object a car like a white car on its

2883
01:53:16,870 --> 01:53:15,840
side where you're looking at the roof of

2884
01:53:19,350 --> 01:53:16,880
the car

2885
01:53:19,910 --> 01:53:19,360
and you're looking at that and that fits

2886
01:53:22,070 --> 01:53:19,920
this

2887
01:53:24,950 --> 01:53:22,080
that's what he thought that he saw and

2888
01:53:25,589 --> 01:53:24,960
he never changed his story to go from

2889
01:53:28,070 --> 01:53:25,599
that

2890
01:53:30,310 --> 01:53:28,080
because you would ask yourself how would

2891
01:53:33,270 --> 01:53:30,320
a policeman make this kind of mistake an

2892
01:53:35,270 --> 01:53:33,280
overturned car well everybody knows what

2893
01:53:36,629 --> 01:53:35,280
that looks like well that's what lonnie

2894
01:53:38,870 --> 01:53:36,639
thought that he saw

2895
01:53:40,390 --> 01:53:38,880
and that's what forced him to drive off

2896
01:53:40,870 --> 01:53:40,400
of the road because he thought that

2897
01:53:44,629 --> 01:53:40,880
there was

2898
01:53:45,589 --> 01:53:44,639
obviously uh uh seriously injured people

2899
01:53:47,589 --> 01:53:45,599
at this point

2900
01:53:48,629 --> 01:53:47,599
but when he when he finally gets close

2901
01:53:51,109 --> 01:53:48,639
enough to it

2902
01:53:52,390 --> 01:53:51,119
it wasn't an overturned car it was this

2903
01:53:54,790 --> 01:53:52,400
egg-shaped object

2904
01:53:56,310 --> 01:53:54,800
on these four legs that i think that is

2905
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:56,320
one of the most crucial parts of

2906
01:54:01,430 --> 01:53:57,440
lonnie's story

2907
01:54:03,990 --> 01:54:01,440
what do you think yeah the fact that

2908
01:54:05,430 --> 01:54:04,000
uh his his greatest concern before he

2909
01:54:08,149 --> 01:54:05,440
even got there was that

2910
01:54:10,149 --> 01:54:08,159
whatever he saw across the sky was

2911
01:54:13,030 --> 01:54:10,159
heading towards the dynamite shack

2912
01:54:13,830 --> 01:54:13,040
so even if it beca if he changed it to

2913
01:54:15,750 --> 01:54:13,840
the fact that

2914
01:54:17,430 --> 01:54:15,760
he thought that maybe a white van or

2915
01:54:19,189 --> 01:54:17,440
something had overturned

2916
01:54:21,750 --> 01:54:19,199
he was concerned that somebody was

2917
01:54:23,830 --> 01:54:21,760
injured and now his car was only three

2918
01:54:25,030 --> 01:54:23,840
weeks old he rotated it with another

2919
01:54:27,270 --> 01:54:25,040
officer

2920
01:54:28,950 --> 01:54:27,280
but he had just gotten his car about

2921
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:28,960
three weeks before so

2922
01:54:33,070 --> 01:54:30,880
the fact that he was risking and you

2923
01:54:36,390 --> 01:54:33,080
know we took a

2924
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:36,400
2014 rental car on the same route and

2925
01:54:39,030 --> 01:54:36,719
just

2926
01:54:41,270 --> 01:54:39,040
beat the crap out of this car trying to

2927
01:54:43,430 --> 01:54:41,280
follow the same path that lonnie did

2928
01:54:44,550 --> 01:54:43,440
for him to drive a new car up there just

2929
01:54:45,990 --> 01:54:44,560
showed you

2930
01:54:48,390 --> 01:54:46,000
his nature he was concerned that

2931
01:54:49,990 --> 01:54:48,400
somebody was hurt he wanted to find out

2932
01:54:51,830 --> 01:54:50,000
if the dynamite shack was

2933
01:54:53,990 --> 01:54:51,840
you know close to whatever was going on

2934
01:54:56,550 --> 01:54:54,000
because it could be an explosion

2935
01:54:58,229 --> 01:54:56,560
and then he would have casualties so

2936
01:55:00,310 --> 01:54:58,239
everything points to the fact that what

2937
01:55:02,149 --> 01:55:00,320
led him up the hill was his concern that

2938
01:55:06,070 --> 01:55:02,159
there was somebody in trouble

2939
01:55:09,270 --> 01:55:06,080
and uh going back to

2940
01:55:11,830 --> 01:55:09,280
uh the way that i

2941
01:55:13,030 --> 01:55:11,840
feel and i'm only looking at the

2942
01:55:16,070 --> 01:55:13,040
correspondence

2943
01:55:16,709 --> 01:55:16,080
uh from heinek there were those out

2944
01:55:19,510 --> 01:55:16,719
there

2945
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:19,520
that were trying to tarnish and diminish

2946
01:55:23,510 --> 01:55:21,360
this socorro

2947
01:55:25,990 --> 01:55:23,520
um incident and i don't want to get into

2948
01:55:28,229 --> 01:55:26,000
the various debunkers and skeptics

2949
01:55:29,270 --> 01:55:28,239
uh inside and outside of washington on

2950
01:55:32,310 --> 01:55:29,280
this case

2951
01:55:35,910 --> 01:55:32,320
but but heinek did not bend did he

2952
01:55:38,709 --> 01:55:35,920
heinek absolutely uh uh stood up for

2953
01:55:41,510 --> 01:55:38,719
lonnie zamora

2954
01:55:42,870 --> 01:55:41,520
yeah a lot uh i think donald manziel and

2955
01:55:44,790 --> 01:55:42,880
some other people were like can't we

2956
01:55:47,589 --> 01:55:44,800
just call this a hallucination

2957
01:55:48,070 --> 01:55:47,599
and you know it's like uh heineks said

2958
01:55:50,390 --> 01:55:48,080
you know

2959
01:55:52,149 --> 01:55:50,400
we we don't get the kind of evidence the

2960
01:55:53,510 --> 01:55:52,159
holes in the ground the burn bush from a

2961
01:55:55,910 --> 01:55:53,520
host nation

2962
01:55:57,030 --> 01:55:55,920
and so the pushback it got to the point

2963
01:55:58,790 --> 01:55:57,040
where

2964
01:56:00,629 --> 01:55:58,800
i i think that's what turned on it

2965
01:56:01,669 --> 01:56:00,639
because everybody was trying to come up

2966
01:56:06,070 --> 01:56:01,679
with anything

2967
01:56:07,830 --> 01:56:06,080
except an un unidentified explanation

2968
01:56:09,669 --> 01:56:07,840
um and that was the importance of all

2969
01:56:11,350 --> 01:56:09,679
these files and the letters back and

2970
01:56:12,470 --> 01:56:11,360
forth behind it because it just tells

2971
01:56:14,310 --> 01:56:12,480
you that

2972
01:56:16,629 --> 01:56:14,320
hector quintanilla the head of project

2973
01:56:18,870 --> 01:56:16,639
blue book was you know he got a topsy

2974
01:56:20,310 --> 01:56:18,880
clearance and he was he firmly believed

2975
01:56:21,350 --> 01:56:20,320
he was going to find his craft sit in

2976
01:56:23,990 --> 01:56:21,360
the hangar

2977
01:56:24,390 --> 01:56:24,000
at white's ends or amargardo or any of

2978
01:56:27,430 --> 01:56:24,400
these

2979
01:56:28,070 --> 01:56:27,440
uh military bases and the fact that all

2980
01:56:29,510 --> 01:56:28,080
the divisions

2981
01:56:31,510 --> 01:56:29,520
of the government were all looking at

2982
01:56:32,310 --> 01:56:31,520
each other going who the heck built this

2983
01:56:36,470 --> 01:56:32,320
thing

2984
01:56:37,750 --> 01:56:36,480
bring up in the book because

2985
01:56:39,990 --> 01:56:37,760
when you're trying to figure out what

2986
01:56:42,149 --> 01:56:40,000
this thing was if it's one of your own

2987
01:56:42,709 --> 01:56:42,159
black projects you can't find out about

2988
01:56:45,830 --> 01:56:42,719
it

2989
01:56:47,990 --> 01:56:45,840
that's a problem because you've got a

2990
01:56:50,310 --> 01:56:48,000
secret kept from the same

2991
01:56:51,830 --> 01:56:50,320
you know country if it's a black project

2992
01:56:53,510 --> 01:56:51,840
from another country you have a much

2993
01:56:56,470 --> 01:56:53,520
bigger problem

2994
01:56:57,830 --> 01:56:56,480
so the fact that they look to every

2995
01:57:00,229 --> 01:56:57,840
intelligence agency

2996
01:57:01,910 --> 01:57:00,239
ever you know bell labs and hues and

2997
01:57:03,910 --> 01:57:01,920
aircraft and all the people that could

2998
01:57:05,589 --> 01:57:03,920
build anything that could fly

2999
01:57:07,109 --> 01:57:05,599
and still couldn't come over and answer

3000
01:57:08,870 --> 01:57:07,119
it just tells you that

3001
01:57:10,229 --> 01:57:08,880
they were really freaked out about the

3002
01:57:12,229 --> 01:57:10,239
fact they couldn't solve it

3003
01:57:15,750 --> 01:57:12,239
something landed in the desert in

3004
01:57:17,510 --> 01:57:15,760
between two major military bases

3005
01:57:19,589 --> 01:57:17,520
at the time it wasn't tracked on radar

3006
01:57:21,350 --> 01:57:19,599
we only had one witness at the time

3007
01:57:23,189 --> 01:57:21,360
and they couldn't figure out what it was

3008
01:57:24,709 --> 01:57:23,199
just told you that they

3009
01:57:26,470 --> 01:57:24,719
they didn't want to show how helpless

3010
01:57:28,149 --> 01:57:26,480
they really were but they were helpless

3011
01:57:30,550 --> 01:57:28,159
the notes show that

3012
01:57:31,750 --> 01:57:30,560
shows they were completely baffled by it

3013
01:57:33,910 --> 01:57:31,760
kept trying to come up with these

3014
01:57:36,310 --> 01:57:33,920
explanations and force them

3015
01:57:36,950 --> 01:57:36,320
um and that's another point that i

3016
01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:36,960
brought up

3017
01:57:40,709 --> 01:57:38,960
is they had plenty of opportunities to

3018
01:57:43,109 --> 01:57:40,719
come out and say look we discovered

3019
01:57:45,270 --> 01:57:43,119
this was a black project we can't talk

3020
01:57:46,950 --> 01:57:45,280
about it case closed

3021
01:57:48,629 --> 01:57:46,960
they never did that either which is

3022
01:57:50,550 --> 01:57:48,639
really interesting because

3023
01:57:52,550 --> 01:57:50,560
i think nowadays that's what they

3024
01:57:55,350 --> 01:57:52,560
probably do they could just say look

3025
01:57:57,030 --> 01:57:55,360
black project can't talk about it uh you

3026
01:57:59,910 --> 01:57:57,040
know

3027
01:58:00,790 --> 01:57:59,920
it's not for public consumption um and

3028
01:58:03,430 --> 01:58:00,800
and

3029
01:58:03,830 --> 01:58:03,440
the fact that they never ever tried to

3030
01:58:06,310 --> 01:58:03,840
say

3031
01:58:07,990 --> 01:58:06,320
there were a few uh documents that said

3032
01:58:09,669 --> 01:58:08,000
probably was a vertical takeoff vehicle

3033
01:58:11,910 --> 01:58:09,679
but when you look at all the

3034
01:58:14,470 --> 01:58:11,920
investigation and do your homework there

3035
01:58:15,990 --> 01:58:14,480
was no vtl vehicle there was nothing

3036
01:58:18,470 --> 01:58:16,000
flying in the area at that time there

3037
01:58:20,470 --> 01:58:18,480
was actually a the wind at the time was

3038
01:58:22,310 --> 01:58:20,480
40 to 45 miles an hour out of the

3039
01:58:24,550 --> 01:58:22,320
southwest which is pretty strong

3040
01:58:26,070 --> 01:58:24,560
you just don't fly a whole lot of things

3041
01:58:27,510 --> 01:58:26,080
don't launch balloons and things like

3042
01:58:28,310 --> 01:58:27,520
that when you have a front moving

3043
01:58:31,669 --> 01:58:28,320
through

3044
01:58:32,550 --> 01:58:31,679
and also especially if we looked at

3045
01:58:35,669 --> 01:58:32,560
other

3046
01:58:38,709 --> 01:58:35,679
craft from that time period um

3047
01:58:40,070 --> 01:58:38,719
if it was ours we would have seen things

3048
01:58:41,430 --> 01:58:40,080
lonnie would have seen things on the

3049
01:58:42,310 --> 01:58:41,440
outside of this craft that he could

3050
01:58:44,149 --> 01:58:42,320
identify

3051
01:58:46,310 --> 01:58:44,159
but there were no doors there were no

3052
01:58:48,550 --> 01:58:46,320
windows there were no wind screens there

3053
01:58:50,870 --> 01:58:48,560
were no wind shields

3054
01:58:53,350 --> 01:58:50,880
there weren't any creases there wasn't

3055
01:58:56,470 --> 01:58:53,360
any metal described

3056
01:58:59,750 --> 01:58:56,480
by lonnie by by all accounts

3057
01:59:02,149 --> 01:58:59,760
it was just a smooth white egg-shaped

3058
01:59:04,470 --> 01:59:02,159
crap without anything that he could

3059
01:59:08,870 --> 01:59:04,480
identify on it outside of the red symbol

3060
01:59:12,149 --> 01:59:08,880
right yeah it was it was kind of a

3061
01:59:14,470 --> 01:59:12,159
um a chrome shaped white he

3062
01:59:15,270 --> 01:59:14,480
never i don't believe he ever saw four

3063
01:59:17,830 --> 01:59:15,280
legs but

3064
01:59:18,310 --> 01:59:17,840
in his description he saw two of the

3065
01:59:20,229 --> 01:59:18,320
gear

3066
01:59:22,550 --> 01:59:20,239
and then he said apparently there were

3067
01:59:23,990 --> 01:59:22,560
four because we had four indentations

3068
01:59:26,470 --> 01:59:24,000
because he was only seeing one side of

3069
01:59:27,189 --> 01:59:26,480
the craft but you know it really didn't

3070
01:59:30,070 --> 01:59:27,199
have anything

3071
01:59:32,149 --> 01:59:30,080
besides the symbol there was no seams

3072
01:59:34,870 --> 01:59:32,159
there were no rivets there was no

3073
01:59:37,109 --> 01:59:34,880
airfalls there was no wings no

3074
01:59:38,709 --> 01:59:37,119
stabilizers or anything and

3075
01:59:40,550 --> 01:59:38,719
like i mentioned in the book if it was

3076
01:59:42,790 --> 01:59:40,560
our tech we'd all have our personal

3077
01:59:45,350 --> 01:59:42,800
flying eggs right now and that's just

3078
01:59:46,550 --> 01:59:45,360
it's just not a shape that's liable to

3079
01:59:48,550 --> 01:59:46,560
fly around the sky

3080
01:59:50,390 --> 01:59:48,560
using their current propulsion

3081
01:59:52,870 --> 01:59:50,400
technology yeah and

3082
01:59:54,550 --> 01:59:52,880
and of course windows you know something

3083
01:59:56,790 --> 01:59:54,560
to see outside of the craft and

3084
01:59:58,149 --> 01:59:56,800
which again with the lunar lander we had

3085
02:00:00,550 --> 01:59:58,159
two windows on it

3086
02:00:01,430 --> 02:00:00,560
you know and it anything else that is

3087
02:00:03,430 --> 02:00:01,440
terrestrial

3088
02:00:04,950 --> 02:00:03,440
you you need to have windows we didn't

3089
02:00:07,750 --> 02:00:04,960
have things that

3090
02:00:09,669 --> 02:00:07,760
that were windowless at that time we

3091
02:00:11,510 --> 02:00:09,679
certainly didn't have that technology

3092
02:00:13,350 --> 02:00:11,520
let's take our break right here ben you

3093
02:00:13,990 --> 02:00:13,360
stay right there so much more to talk

3094
02:00:16,790 --> 02:00:14,000
about

3095
02:00:18,390 --> 02:00:16,800
when we come back this is another part

3096
02:00:21,109 --> 02:00:18,400
of the case that i always found

3097
02:00:21,830 --> 02:00:21,119
interesting and that was the proposed

3098
02:00:24,790 --> 02:00:21,840
hoaxes

3099
02:00:27,270 --> 02:00:24,800
around this case to help explain it away

3100
02:00:29,350 --> 02:00:27,280
we'll get to all of that when we return

3101
02:00:31,910 --> 02:00:29,360
tonight ben moss on fade to black stay

3102
02:00:39,510 --> 02:00:33,350
hi everybody this is rob halpert the

3103
02:00:43,109 --> 02:00:42,070
this is kgra digital broadcasting

3104
02:00:46,709 --> 02:00:43,119
station

3105
02:00:48,550 --> 02:00:46,719
salt lake city utah van buren arkansas

3106
02:00:50,709 --> 02:00:48,560
why is it we're not very good with our

3107
02:00:52,070 --> 02:00:50,719
health regiment until it's too late we

3108
02:00:53,589 --> 02:00:52,080
don't put oil in the car

3109
02:00:55,830 --> 02:00:53,599
until the engine blows up when the

3110
02:00:58,310 --> 02:00:55,840
body's out of balance your health

3111
02:01:01,149 --> 02:00:58,320
is not so good give your body some love

3112
02:01:02,310 --> 02:01:01,159
log on to get the tea.com that's get the

3113
02:01:04,310 --> 02:01:02,320
tea.com

3114
02:01:06,229 --> 02:01:04,320
try our life change tea which cleanses

3115
02:01:08,390 --> 02:01:06,239
you from harmful intruders

3116
02:01:09,910 --> 02:01:08,400
a clean colon is one of the ways to

3117
02:01:11,910 --> 02:01:09,920
bring the body in balance

3118
02:01:13,030 --> 02:01:11,920
we also carry organic supplements to

3119
02:01:15,750 --> 02:01:13,040
help you get where

3120
02:01:19,310 --> 02:01:15,760
you need to go so do your body a favor

3121
02:01:20,550 --> 02:01:19,320
log on to get the tea.com that's get the

3122
02:01:22,790 --> 02:01:20,560
ttea.com

3123
02:01:24,070 --> 02:01:22,800
you can even visit our sales page to

3124
02:01:26,310 --> 02:01:24,080
save some dough

3125
02:01:27,990 --> 02:01:26,320
does anybody call money dough anymore

3126
02:01:29,270 --> 02:01:28,000
anyway if you're looking for short

3127
02:01:31,669 --> 02:01:29,280
helpful health tips

3128
02:01:33,030 --> 02:01:31,679
go to youtube and punch in health

3129
02:01:40,790 --> 02:01:33,040
matters now

3130
02:01:43,109 --> 02:01:40,800
log on to getthet.com shop get balanced

3131
02:01:43,830 --> 02:01:43,119
then learn some cool tips at health

3132
02:01:45,830 --> 02:01:43,840
matters

3133
02:01:48,310 --> 02:01:45,840
now you'll be glad you did that's get

3134
02:01:50,310 --> 02:01:48,320
the tea dot com

3135
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:50,320
your contact for current news and

3136
02:01:53,229 --> 02:01:51,370
trending topics

3137
02:01:55,109 --> 02:01:53,239
[Music]

3138
02:01:56,950 --> 02:01:55,119
kgraradio.com

3139
02:01:58,709 --> 02:01:56,960
this is jimmy church of fade to black

3140
02:02:01,910 --> 02:01:58,719
and i only drink

3141
02:02:02,629 --> 02:02:01,920
fade to black blend coffee from river

3142
02:02:06,870 --> 02:02:02,639
moon

3143
02:02:10,149 --> 02:02:06,880
banner at jimmychurchradio.com

3144
02:02:12,709 --> 02:02:10,159
promo code f2b blend

3145
02:02:15,589 --> 02:02:12,719
let's face it you've always wanted to do

3146
02:02:19,270 --> 02:02:15,599
a sky watch and see your first ufo

3147
02:02:21,990 --> 02:02:19,280
today it's easy just get your own hp7

3148
02:02:22,950 --> 02:02:22,000
3b cobalt jimmy church edition night

3149
02:02:25,510 --> 02:02:22,960
vision goggles

3150
02:02:27,910 --> 02:02:25,520
from hoffman's optics this is the same

3151
02:02:31,270 --> 02:02:27,920
us military system that i use featuring

3152
02:02:34,070 --> 02:02:31,280
a generation 3 blue phosphor image tube

3153
02:02:34,870 --> 02:02:34,080
that's right it's blue not black and

3154
02:02:36,950 --> 02:02:34,880
green

3155
02:02:38,470 --> 02:02:36,960
this is the only blue system in the

3156
02:02:41,189 --> 02:02:38,480
world and it's waterproof

3157
02:02:42,629 --> 02:02:41,199
lightweight combat proven simple to use

3158
02:02:45,030 --> 02:02:42,639
and ready to go

3159
02:02:46,470 --> 02:02:45,040
off men's optics help create night

3160
02:02:48,310 --> 02:02:46,480
vision sky watches

3161
02:02:50,310 --> 02:02:48,320
and now you can see what everyone has

3162
02:02:51,430 --> 02:02:50,320
been talking about each night from your

3163
02:02:54,870 --> 02:02:51,440
own backyard

3164
02:02:58,790 --> 02:02:54,880
just call 760-231-9929

3165
02:03:00,790 --> 02:02:58,800
that's 760-231-9929

3166
02:03:03,510 --> 02:03:00,800
you can click on the banners on our site

3167
02:03:04,070 --> 02:03:03,520
or visit ufo night vision goggles dot

3168
02:03:13,350 --> 02:03:04,080
com

3169
02:03:17,510 --> 02:03:13,360
go back lee tappy this is the only way

3170
02:03:22,310 --> 02:03:17,520
this is made to black make contact

3171
02:03:27,910 --> 02:03:25,510
listen i know and you know that you've

3172
02:03:30,149 --> 02:03:27,920
always wanted your first crystal skull

3173
02:03:32,310 --> 02:03:30,159
or maybe you're a collector just like me

3174
02:03:34,149 --> 02:03:32,320
but you just don't know where to go to

3175
02:03:37,390 --> 02:03:34,159
find the real thing

3176
02:03:38,790 --> 02:03:37,400
then i met carolyn ford over at

3177
02:03:41,189 --> 02:03:38,800
einsteinthecrystalskull.com

3178
02:03:43,189 --> 02:03:41,199
carolyn is the guardian of einstein one

3179
02:03:44,709 --> 02:03:43,199
of the most respected ancient crystal

3180
02:03:46,390 --> 02:03:44,719
skulls in the world

3181
02:03:48,629 --> 02:03:46,400
all of her unique skulls have been

3182
02:03:50,550 --> 02:03:48,639
imprinted sitting with einstein in his

3183
02:03:52,870 --> 02:03:50,560
sacred lodge and are carved from the

3184
02:03:55,030 --> 02:03:52,880
finest gemstone and materials

3185
02:03:57,189 --> 02:03:55,040
imprinting is the process of receiving

3186
02:04:00,390 --> 02:03:57,199
the ancient wisdom from the master

3187
02:04:00,950 --> 02:04:00,400
skull or master computer einstein the

3188
02:04:03,350 --> 02:04:00,960
ancient

3189
02:04:05,430 --> 02:04:03,360
crystal skull to see carolyn's current

3190
02:04:06,310 --> 02:04:05,440
collection of crystal skulls just visit

3191
02:04:09,270 --> 02:04:06,320
her store at

3192
02:04:11,270 --> 02:04:09,280
einstein the crystalskull.com click on

3193
02:04:13,750 --> 02:04:11,280
the banner over on our site

3194
02:04:15,669 --> 02:04:13,760
don't forget to use the promo code jimmy

3195
02:04:18,229 --> 02:04:15,679
at checkout to receive 10

3196
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:18,239
off of your order today that's promo

3197
02:04:21,510 --> 02:04:18,960
code

3198
02:04:22,790 --> 02:04:21,520
jimmy finding your first or next crystal

3199
02:04:27,270 --> 02:04:22,800
skull is easy

3200
02:04:29,830 --> 02:04:27,280
just visit einsteinthecrystalskull.com

3201
02:04:31,990 --> 02:04:29,840
telepath is a weekly digital newsletter

3202
02:04:34,390 --> 02:04:32,000
filled with the latest paranormal news

3203
02:04:36,229 --> 02:04:34,400
trending topics and fresh articles from

3204
02:04:36,790 --> 02:04:36,239
some of the most popular critical

3205
02:04:39,189 --> 02:04:36,800
thinkers

3206
02:04:41,430 --> 02:04:39,199
in the community today stay informed on

3207
02:04:43,189 --> 02:04:41,440
your favorite paranormal podcasts and

3208
02:04:45,109 --> 02:04:43,199
live streaming talk shows

3209
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:45,119
interact with the telepath and upload

3210
02:04:48,550 --> 02:04:46,560
your paranormal story or

3211
02:04:49,750 --> 02:04:48,560
picks it could be featured in an

3212
02:04:52,229 --> 02:04:49,760
upcoming edition

3213
02:04:54,790 --> 02:04:52,239
sign up right now for the free telepath

3214
02:05:06,390 --> 02:04:54,800
newsletter at paranormal dot radio

3215
02:05:09,510 --> 02:05:06,400
that's paranormal dot radio

3216
02:05:13,350 --> 02:05:09,520
you want to know a secret i love

3217
02:05:15,589 --> 02:05:13,360
ponies i really love ponies i'm serious

3218
02:05:16,950 --> 02:05:15,599
i couldn't stay sane without ponies to

3219
02:05:20,149 --> 02:05:16,960
brush

3220
02:05:21,109 --> 02:05:20,159
why fade to black because you never got

3221
02:05:25,510 --> 02:05:21,119
that pony

3222
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:27,669
this is fade to black with jimmy church

3223
02:05:34,840 --> 02:05:30,000
on the game changer radio network

3224
02:05:47,030 --> 02:05:34,850
and kgra the global radio alliance

3225
02:05:48,950 --> 02:05:47,040
[Music]

3226
02:05:51,589 --> 02:05:48,960
welcome back fade to black i am your

3227
02:05:54,149 --> 02:05:51,599
host jimmy church tonight ben moss

3228
02:05:56,470 --> 02:05:54,159
discussing his new book on the 1964

3229
02:06:00,629 --> 02:05:56,480
socorro new mexico ufo landing

3230
02:06:03,189 --> 02:06:00,639
witnessed by policeman lonnie zamora

3231
02:06:04,589 --> 02:06:03,199
so much is in this new book and you can

3232
02:06:06,790 --> 02:06:04,599
click on the links over at

3233
02:06:08,470 --> 02:06:06,800
jimmychurchradio.com head over to ben's

3234
02:06:11,510 --> 02:06:08,480
uh facebook page

3235
02:06:12,390 --> 02:06:11,520
ben self published this book the only

3236
02:06:15,669 --> 02:06:12,400
way to get it

3237
02:06:16,149 --> 02:06:15,679
well this easiest way is to head over to

3238
02:06:19,510 --> 02:06:16,159
ben's

3239
02:06:21,750 --> 02:06:19,520
uh facebook page and contact ben

3240
02:06:23,270 --> 02:06:21,760
and he will uh tell you what to do to

3241
02:06:26,310 --> 02:06:23,280
get a copy of the book

3242
02:06:27,350 --> 02:06:26,320
uh it's an incredible read and i highly

3243
02:06:30,310 --> 02:06:27,360
recommend it ben

3244
02:06:31,669 --> 02:06:30,320
uh the amount of work put into this uh

3245
02:06:34,550 --> 02:06:31,679
you know five years

3246
02:06:36,470 --> 02:06:34,560
yeah yeah it uh is definitely

3247
02:06:37,830 --> 02:06:36,480
represented in this book man you did a

3248
02:06:41,109 --> 02:06:37,840
great job on it

3249
02:06:42,310 --> 02:06:41,119
i want to uh move to another part of the

3250
02:06:44,390 --> 02:06:42,320
story

3251
02:06:45,830 --> 02:06:44,400
which is always out there when you look

3252
02:06:48,870 --> 02:06:45,840
at the socorro case

3253
02:06:51,270 --> 02:06:48,880
which is uh the hoax

3254
02:06:52,229 --> 02:06:51,280
side of this that maybe lonnie was

3255
02:06:54,870 --> 02:06:52,239
hoaxed

3256
02:06:55,669 --> 02:06:54,880
uh there's another hoax involved here

3257
02:06:58,950 --> 02:06:55,679
there's been

3258
02:06:59,270 --> 02:06:58,960
several uh different theories and ideas

3259
02:07:02,470 --> 02:06:59,280
put

3260
02:07:04,709 --> 02:07:02,480
forward and i want to get into that part

3261
02:07:07,589 --> 02:07:04,719
of the story because we have

3262
02:07:08,069 --> 02:07:07,599
the possibility of university students

3263
02:07:14,149 --> 02:07:08,079
uh

3264
02:07:17,750 --> 02:07:14,159
can you tell us about that

3265
02:07:20,790 --> 02:07:17,760
well that all started with a letter um

3266
02:07:23,189 --> 02:07:20,800
with sterling colgate was discussing

3267
02:07:24,709 --> 02:07:23,199
some something off topic with another

3268
02:07:28,390 --> 02:07:24,719
person

3269
02:07:31,109 --> 02:07:28,400
socorro

3270
02:07:33,030 --> 02:07:31,119
incident and and sterling i think it was

3271
02:07:34,149 --> 02:07:33,040
linus paulding that was the letter was

3272
02:07:35,750 --> 02:07:34,159
to him but

3273
02:07:37,990 --> 02:07:35,760
sterling said that he had on good

3274
02:07:39,750 --> 02:07:38,000
authority that it was a student hoax

3275
02:07:41,350 --> 02:07:39,760
and the students had left and he said

3276
02:07:43,750 --> 02:07:41,360
cheers and so

3277
02:07:45,350 --> 02:07:43,760
that one sentence kind of started this

3278
02:07:47,910 --> 02:07:45,360
this whole

3279
02:07:48,709 --> 02:07:47,920
fabrication really that sterling had

3280
02:07:51,589 --> 02:07:48,719
made up

3281
02:07:52,069 --> 02:07:51,599
at the time and then tried to cover um

3282
02:07:55,589 --> 02:07:52,079
because

3283
02:07:58,629 --> 02:07:55,599
as we dug into it um the the main

3284
02:07:59,430 --> 02:07:58,639
debunkers of socorro kind of you know

3285
02:08:02,870 --> 02:07:59,440
hooked their

3286
02:08:05,750 --> 02:08:02,880
horses to this one piece of material

3287
02:08:06,310 --> 02:08:05,760
and as i dug into this like you know i

3288
02:08:08,069 --> 02:08:06,320
talked to

3289
02:08:09,589 --> 02:08:08,079
people that were students at the time at

3290
02:08:11,510 --> 02:08:09,599
new mexico tech and

3291
02:08:13,589 --> 02:08:11,520
and they all said that this was

3292
02:08:16,709 --> 02:08:13,599
ludicrous that um

3293
02:08:18,310 --> 02:08:16,719
first of all it was near exams and

3294
02:08:20,149 --> 02:08:18,320
students really didn't

3295
02:08:22,390 --> 02:08:20,159
want to do anything and study at the

3296
02:08:23,990 --> 02:08:22,400
time secondly socorro

3297
02:08:25,990 --> 02:08:24,000
students didn't really go into socorro

3298
02:08:27,830 --> 02:08:26,000
much because there wasn't much to do

3299
02:08:29,669 --> 02:08:27,840
they'd rather stay on campus and most of

3300
02:08:31,350 --> 02:08:29,679
the pranks that were pulled

3301
02:08:32,870 --> 02:08:31,360
were pulled on campus they did a lot of

3302
02:08:34,950 --> 02:08:32,880
pranks on campus

3303
02:08:35,910 --> 02:08:34,960
and one of the gentlemen that i found on

3304
02:08:38,149 --> 02:08:35,920
an

3305
02:08:40,229 --> 02:08:38,159
email thread he was like the guy that

3306
02:08:42,229 --> 02:08:40,239
pulled off most of the pranks

3307
02:08:43,510 --> 02:08:42,239
and he said look i was there at the time

3308
02:08:45,510 --> 02:08:43,520
i knew

3309
02:08:47,030 --> 02:08:45,520
uh all the students that did this stuff

3310
02:08:48,790 --> 02:08:47,040
in fact i was guilty of some of them

3311
02:08:50,390 --> 02:08:48,800
myself and any student that pulled this

3312
02:08:51,910 --> 02:08:50,400
off i would have known about it and it

3313
02:08:53,669 --> 02:08:51,920
never happened

3314
02:08:55,270 --> 02:08:53,679
so as i dug further and actually

3315
02:08:58,629 --> 02:08:55,280
communicated with the main

3316
02:09:00,149 --> 02:08:58,639
person promoting this hoax theory

3317
02:09:01,750 --> 02:09:00,159
he mentioned the initials of one of

3318
02:09:02,870 --> 02:09:01,760
these so-called students and it didn't

3319
02:09:04,790 --> 02:09:02,880
take me long to

3320
02:09:06,629 --> 02:09:04,800
actually find out who these two students

3321
02:09:09,669 --> 02:09:06,639
supposedly were

3322
02:09:11,910 --> 02:09:09,679
and after uh finding out who they were

3323
02:09:13,109 --> 02:09:11,920
one of them wasn't on campus at the time

3324
02:09:15,430 --> 02:09:13,119
and the other one

3325
02:09:16,470 --> 02:09:15,440
had no idea why sterling threw him under

3326
02:09:19,430 --> 02:09:16,480
the bus was

3327
02:09:21,109 --> 02:09:19,440
the term used and so both of them deny

3328
02:09:21,910 --> 02:09:21,119
it ever have anything to do with it and

3329
02:09:23,990 --> 02:09:21,920
when you

3330
02:09:26,149 --> 02:09:24,000
look at the evidence and what was

3331
02:09:27,830 --> 02:09:26,159
available in 1964

3332
02:09:30,310 --> 02:09:27,840
to replicate all the evidence that was

3333
02:09:33,030 --> 02:09:30,320
left behind is virtually impossible

3334
02:09:34,470 --> 02:09:33,040
um and the fact that when the police

3335
02:09:36,310 --> 02:09:34,480
officers got there about

3336
02:09:37,830 --> 02:09:36,320
three minutes after the event they found

3337
02:09:41,270 --> 02:09:37,840
no human footprints

3338
02:09:44,790 --> 02:09:41,280
no evidence of any power techniques

3339
02:09:47,270 --> 02:09:44,800
no evidence of any hoax

3340
02:09:49,750 --> 02:09:47,280
of any chemicals of any kerosene of

3341
02:09:52,069 --> 02:09:49,760
anything that would be needed to

3342
02:09:53,830 --> 02:09:52,079
make the indentations burn the grease

3343
02:09:55,750 --> 02:09:53,840
with bush in half

3344
02:09:57,030 --> 02:09:55,760
scrape one of these rocks with some

3345
02:09:59,350 --> 02:09:57,040
metal all the

3346
02:10:01,750 --> 02:09:59,360
indications you know would have been

3347
02:10:02,709 --> 02:10:01,760
probably almost impossible to reproduce

3348
02:10:04,629 --> 02:10:02,719
today

3349
02:10:06,310 --> 02:10:04,639
and the fact that you had to pull lonnie

3350
02:10:09,109 --> 02:10:06,320
from the street about a quarter mile

3351
02:10:10,390 --> 02:10:09,119
into an exact spot in the desert

3352
02:10:13,030 --> 02:10:10,400
i just don't see how you could pull that

3353
02:10:13,990 --> 02:10:13,040
off but anyway we we need to dig into

3354
02:10:15,750 --> 02:10:14,000
that theory and so

3355
02:10:17,830 --> 02:10:15,760
the further we dug the more we found

3356
02:10:19,109 --> 02:10:17,840
that the hoax theory was based on one

3357
02:10:21,109 --> 02:10:19,119
line from

3358
02:10:23,910 --> 02:10:21,119
sterling colgate who was a professor at

3359
02:10:26,870 --> 02:10:23,920
the school who found out like the party

3360
02:10:28,390 --> 02:10:26,880
uh he was uh you know not too

3361
02:10:29,669 --> 02:10:28,400
disparaging or anything but he liked to

3362
02:10:30,629 --> 02:10:29,679
get high he liked to party with the

3363
02:10:32,790 --> 02:10:30,639
students

3364
02:10:35,510 --> 02:10:32,800
and so i think he kind of told a white

3365
02:10:38,149 --> 02:10:35,520
lie that ballooned into something else

3366
02:10:39,830 --> 02:10:38,159
um that he had to cover for but he never

3367
02:10:41,430 --> 02:10:39,840
provided any proof

3368
02:10:43,510 --> 02:10:41,440
and he said all this after lonnie had

3369
02:10:45,189 --> 02:10:43,520
passed away and couldn't you know refute

3370
02:10:47,030 --> 02:10:45,199
any of it and so

3371
02:10:48,470 --> 02:10:47,040
the hoax theory pretty much fell apart

3372
02:10:50,069 --> 02:10:48,480
because i couldn't find any evidence

3373
02:10:51,430 --> 02:10:50,079
that anybody could pull it off and that

3374
02:10:54,229 --> 02:10:51,440
anybody had done it

3375
02:10:54,790 --> 02:10:54,239
and that anybody could replicate it well

3376
02:10:58,069 --> 02:10:54,800
okay

3377
02:11:01,430 --> 02:10:58,079
and to be clear here uh what was

3378
02:11:03,510 --> 02:11:01,440
proposed uh is that

3379
02:11:05,350 --> 02:11:03,520
uh and the letter is in the book you

3380
02:11:08,550 --> 02:11:05,360
guys can see a copy of the letter

3381
02:11:11,589 --> 02:11:08,560
and the ps by the way that's uh below it

3382
02:11:13,669 --> 02:11:11,599
is that it was a candle in a balloon

3383
02:11:16,069 --> 02:11:13,679
and if i'm understanding everything

3384
02:11:19,030 --> 02:11:16,079
because it gets a little convoluted here

3385
02:11:19,669 --> 02:11:19,040
but that the students had a candle in a

3386
02:11:21,669 --> 02:11:19,679
balloon

3387
02:11:23,510 --> 02:11:21,679
in broad daylight that doesn't make any

3388
02:11:27,910 --> 02:11:23,520
sense but that

3389
02:11:30,629 --> 02:11:27,920
the balloon was attached to a cable

3390
02:11:32,870 --> 02:11:30,639
to another car and that there were two

3391
02:11:34,629 --> 02:11:32,880
students out there pulling this hoax off

3392
02:11:37,510 --> 02:11:34,639
in the middle of the desert

3393
02:11:38,950 --> 02:11:37,520
right there were no there were you would

3394
02:11:40,709 --> 02:11:38,960
need a bunch of things here you would

3395
02:11:41,830 --> 02:11:40,719
need additional tire tracks you would

3396
02:11:43,830 --> 02:11:41,840
have to have

3397
02:11:45,030 --> 02:11:43,840
uh of course the equipment and the cable

3398
02:11:47,510 --> 02:11:45,040
and things but

3399
02:11:48,310 --> 02:11:47,520
uh there would have to have been uh

3400
02:11:50,390 --> 02:11:48,320
students

3401
02:11:51,990 --> 02:11:50,400
and their footprints and other evidence

3402
02:11:54,629 --> 02:11:52,000
out there in the desert

3403
02:11:56,790 --> 02:11:54,639
none of this was found by heinek or ray

3404
02:11:59,189 --> 02:11:56,800
stanford or the air force or anybody

3405
02:12:02,950 --> 02:11:59,199
else right

3406
02:12:05,270 --> 02:12:02,960
yeah and i know who promoted that theory

3407
02:12:06,790 --> 02:12:05,280
and i talked to that person several

3408
02:12:09,990 --> 02:12:06,800
years ago

3409
02:12:10,470 --> 02:12:10,000
and i as i discovered as i was talking

3410
02:12:13,109 --> 02:12:10,480
to him

3411
02:12:14,149 --> 02:12:13,119
he had never been to the site and i said

3412
02:12:16,390 --> 02:12:14,159
first of all

3413
02:12:17,669 --> 02:12:16,400
you can't even drive a car there because

3414
02:12:21,030 --> 02:12:17,679
there's cactus

3415
02:12:22,390 --> 02:12:21,040
and boulders and depressions and i mean

3416
02:12:24,550 --> 02:12:22,400
you really can't unless you're on the

3417
02:12:27,510 --> 02:12:24,560
road there's nowhere to go

3418
02:12:28,149 --> 02:12:27,520
and if you tow a balloon and a rope it's

3419
02:12:32,790 --> 02:12:28,159
it's

3420
02:12:34,709 --> 02:12:32,800
straight up

3421
02:12:36,390 --> 02:12:34,719
and there's nowhere to hide you can see

3422
02:12:38,069 --> 02:12:36,400
in every direction once you're up on

3423
02:12:39,109 --> 02:12:38,079
that rim out of that little depression

3424
02:12:42,229 --> 02:12:39,119
you can see

3425
02:12:44,709 --> 02:12:42,239
in every direction for a long ways a

3426
02:12:46,629 --> 02:12:44,719
a car would have picked up dust i mean

3427
02:12:50,149 --> 02:12:46,639
it's really ludicrous but

3428
02:12:52,550 --> 02:12:50,159
when i dug into the debunkers theories

3429
02:12:53,910 --> 02:12:52,560
not a single one of those guys had ever

3430
02:12:56,069 --> 02:12:53,920
been to the site

3431
02:12:57,109 --> 02:12:56,079
and as i say in my book that's like

3432
02:12:59,430 --> 02:12:57,119
being a

3433
02:13:01,910 --> 02:12:59,440
murder investigator and never going to

3434
02:13:02,790 --> 02:13:01,920
the scene of the crime to try to figure

3435
02:13:05,750 --> 02:13:02,800
out the case

3436
02:13:07,589 --> 02:13:05,760
well and chavez who was on the scene

3437
02:13:09,189 --> 02:13:07,599
immediately

3438
02:13:11,109 --> 02:13:09,199
and when you talk about you know two

3439
02:13:12,149 --> 02:13:11,119
minutes after lonnie calls him he's

3440
02:13:15,669 --> 02:13:12,159
there

3441
02:13:19,430 --> 02:13:15,679
any evidence of any hoaxing going on

3442
02:13:19,830 --> 02:13:19,440
chavez would would be there as a witness

3443
02:13:22,550 --> 02:13:19,840
to it

3444
02:13:24,550 --> 02:13:22,560
and he you know he's a state party

3445
02:13:26,950 --> 02:13:24,560
that's their job

3446
02:13:28,470 --> 02:13:26,960
to go and catch somebody running around

3447
02:13:31,189 --> 02:13:28,480
in the middle of the desert

3448
02:13:32,069 --> 02:13:31,199
kicking up dust and and running around

3449
02:13:34,229 --> 02:13:32,079
with a balloon

3450
02:13:36,149 --> 02:13:34,239
chavez never reported anything like that

3451
02:13:38,390 --> 02:13:36,159
did he

3452
02:13:40,229 --> 02:13:38,400
now he actually looked in my trunk to

3453
02:13:42,550 --> 02:13:40,239
see if there was anything in his car

3454
02:13:44,390 --> 02:13:42,560
you know any shovels or anything and he

3455
02:13:46,229 --> 02:13:44,400
said that lonnie looked white as a ghost

3456
02:13:48,149 --> 02:13:46,239
when he got there which for

3457
02:13:49,350 --> 02:13:48,159
hispanic man is kind of hard he knew

3458
02:13:52,390 --> 02:13:49,360
that lonnie was

3459
02:13:53,270 --> 02:13:52,400
in some type of shot but um the first

3460
02:13:55,589 --> 02:13:53,280
thing that they

3461
02:13:57,830 --> 02:13:55,599
checked was that there was no footprints

3462
02:13:59,910 --> 02:13:57,840
no activity

3463
02:14:01,430 --> 02:13:59,920
even the chemical analysis which is in

3464
02:14:03,189 --> 02:14:01,440
the documents that i have in the book

3465
02:14:05,109 --> 02:14:03,199
shows that there was no evidence of

3466
02:14:06,550 --> 02:14:05,119
kerosene or gasoline or anything to burn

3467
02:14:09,430 --> 02:14:06,560
the bush in half

3468
02:14:09,990 --> 02:14:09,440
there was no pyrotechnics to explain the

3469
02:14:11,910 --> 02:14:10,000
whining

3470
02:14:13,030 --> 02:14:11,920
the wind down sound that he heard when

3471
02:14:16,470 --> 02:14:13,040
that first

3472
02:14:18,149 --> 02:14:16,480
engine cut off and um there was just

3473
02:14:19,430 --> 02:14:18,159
nothing to indicate humans have been in

3474
02:14:21,350 --> 02:14:19,440
the area for a while

3475
02:14:22,709 --> 02:14:21,360
it's just a depression it's really in

3476
02:14:25,109 --> 02:14:22,719
the middle of nowhere

3477
02:14:27,109 --> 02:14:25,119
if the first time we went there we were

3478
02:14:28,069 --> 02:14:27,119
with the uh editor for mail defense for

3479
02:14:29,510 --> 02:14:28,079
chieftain

3480
02:14:31,189 --> 02:14:29,520
and it was hard to find he couldn't even

3481
02:14:33,109 --> 02:14:31,199
remember how to get there i mean

3482
02:14:34,470 --> 02:14:33,119
after about a half hour we drive around

3483
02:14:36,950 --> 02:14:34,480
the desert we

3484
02:14:38,310 --> 02:14:36,960
found the site so it just it doesn't

3485
02:14:40,629 --> 02:14:38,320
make any sense

3486
02:14:42,950 --> 02:14:40,639
and i don't see how you could get lonnie

3487
02:14:44,069 --> 02:14:42,960
to go from a road that's about a quarter

3488
02:14:47,189 --> 02:14:44,079
mile away

3489
02:14:49,350 --> 02:14:47,199
and pull him to that site with a camel

3490
02:14:50,550 --> 02:14:49,360
and a balloon that's going against a 40

3491
02:14:53,350 --> 02:14:50,560
mile an hour wind

3492
02:14:53,990 --> 02:14:53,360
and now and to be clear uh sergeant

3493
02:14:56,950 --> 02:14:54,000
chavez

3494
02:14:58,870 --> 02:14:56,960
was there uh in about two minutes uh

3495
02:15:01,830 --> 02:14:58,880
later on captain holder was there

3496
02:15:03,669 --> 02:15:01,840
he had his team with him and the

3497
02:15:06,550 --> 02:15:03,679
official report

3498
02:15:08,709 --> 02:15:06,560
is very clear there were no footprints

3499
02:15:10,390 --> 02:15:08,719
they were looking for footprints

3500
02:15:13,030 --> 02:15:10,400
they didn't find any footprints they

3501
02:15:15,430 --> 02:15:13,040
only had the four landing gear

3502
02:15:17,589 --> 02:15:15,440
indentations and a few circular

3503
02:15:21,109 --> 02:15:17,599
depressions possibly made by

3504
02:15:22,629 --> 02:15:21,119
uh a ladder or something else that came

3505
02:15:24,069 --> 02:15:22,639
out from the side of the craft

3506
02:15:26,310 --> 02:15:24,079
but there was nothing else that would

3507
02:15:31,109 --> 02:15:26,320
indicate that there were

3508
02:15:34,709 --> 02:15:33,030
yeah there was nothing there there there

3509
02:15:37,910 --> 02:15:34,719
are i think james

3510
02:15:39,750 --> 02:15:37,920
fox ran across this it seems like before

3511
02:15:41,669 --> 02:15:39,760
dr heineck and ray got there that they

3512
02:15:42,550 --> 02:15:41,679
had kind of coordinated off the area and

3513
02:15:46,069 --> 02:15:42,560
done a pretty good

3514
02:15:48,069 --> 02:15:46,079
search and and the blue book files

3515
02:15:49,830 --> 02:15:48,079
and the files that were on craigslist

3516
02:15:50,069 --> 02:15:49,840
that weren't released to the public at

3517
02:15:52,390 --> 02:15:50,079
the

3518
02:15:54,229 --> 02:15:52,400
time it does say you know we did

3519
02:15:56,709 --> 02:15:54,239
chemical analysis we didn't find

3520
02:15:58,069 --> 02:15:56,719
anything we did a search for footprints

3521
02:16:00,229 --> 02:15:58,079
all we found were

3522
02:16:01,109 --> 02:16:00,239
the four indentations the two circular

3523
02:16:03,430 --> 02:16:01,119
marks from what

3524
02:16:04,870 --> 02:16:03,440
could have been a ladder and then the

3525
02:16:08,550 --> 02:16:04,880
weird prince from where the

3526
02:16:11,030 --> 02:16:08,560
the creatures were standing and so um

3527
02:16:11,750 --> 02:16:11,040
for to suggest that college students

3528
02:16:14,790 --> 02:16:11,760
fooled the

3529
02:16:16,229 --> 02:16:14,800
combined forces of the fbi the cia and

3530
02:16:17,990 --> 02:16:16,239
project blue book

3531
02:16:20,629 --> 02:16:18,000
and the air force they couldn't figure

3532
02:16:22,069 --> 02:16:20,639
out it was a hoax they would have been

3533
02:16:24,550 --> 02:16:22,079
if it was they would have been on it on

3534
02:16:25,189 --> 02:16:24,560
that campus in no time got the students

3535
02:16:26,629 --> 02:16:25,199
and

3536
02:16:28,790 --> 02:16:26,639
there would have been big trouble it

3537
02:16:31,270 --> 02:16:28,800
just doesn't make any sense you

3538
02:16:33,429 --> 02:16:31,280
if you really look at the data that's

3539
02:16:35,589 --> 02:16:33,439
available through the research

3540
02:16:37,509 --> 02:16:35,599
you'll find that there's absolutely no

3541
02:16:39,030 --> 02:16:37,519
way you can prove that a student could

3542
02:16:43,270 --> 02:16:39,040
even pull that off

3543
02:16:46,150 --> 02:16:43,280
and then there were the reports of uh

3544
02:16:47,190 --> 02:16:46,160
that this was just a hot air balloon

3545
02:16:49,349 --> 02:16:47,200
with

3546
02:16:51,910 --> 02:16:49,359
uh you know gas heating up the hot air

3547
02:16:54,510 --> 02:16:51,920
balloon or possibly a helium balloon

3548
02:16:56,150 --> 02:16:54,520
and that's what lonnie saw

3549
02:16:57,990 --> 02:16:56,160
[Music]

3550
02:17:00,070 --> 02:16:58,000
what can you say about that part of it

3551
02:17:01,429 --> 02:17:00,080
and the first comment and even when i

3552
02:17:04,709 --> 02:17:01,439
was looking at this case

3553
02:17:06,950 --> 02:17:04,719
many many many many years ago uh

3554
02:17:08,070 --> 02:17:06,960
you would have seen chavez or anybody

3555
02:17:11,110 --> 02:17:08,080
else would have seen

3556
02:17:13,110 --> 02:17:11,120
a hot air balloon in the air because you

3557
02:17:13,990 --> 02:17:13,120
have wide open sky it's new mexico

3558
02:17:17,270 --> 02:17:14,000
you're gonna see that

3559
02:17:18,389 --> 02:17:17,280
for an hour or two after the fact and it

3560
02:17:22,389 --> 02:17:18,399
was too windy

3561
02:17:24,950 --> 02:17:22,399
to launch a hot air balloon right

3562
02:17:26,709 --> 02:17:24,960
yeah i you know i checked with uh i

3563
02:17:29,750 --> 02:17:26,719
think in albuquerque is

3564
02:17:32,389 --> 02:17:29,760
one of the hot air bloom museums

3565
02:17:34,309 --> 02:17:32,399
um one of the biggest ones in the

3566
02:17:36,230 --> 02:17:34,319
country but

3567
02:17:38,469 --> 02:17:36,240
they said that you wouldn't launch a

3568
02:17:42,230 --> 02:17:38,479
balloon when the front's coming through

3569
02:17:44,549 --> 02:17:42,240
and you know a balloon a two-man balloon

3570
02:17:46,070 --> 02:17:44,559
would require a pretty large flame going

3571
02:17:48,070 --> 02:17:46,080
up into a canopy

3572
02:17:49,110 --> 02:17:48,080
it wouldn't be going down and burning a

3573
02:17:51,750 --> 02:17:49,120
bush in half or

3574
02:17:53,830 --> 02:17:51,760
you know there's no landing gear it's a

3575
02:17:55,830 --> 02:17:53,840
gondola

3576
02:17:57,270 --> 02:17:55,840
you don't launch at that time of the

3577
02:17:58,629 --> 02:17:57,280
evening though with those type of

3578
02:18:00,629 --> 02:17:58,639
weather conditions it was

3579
02:18:02,629 --> 02:18:00,639
they made it real clear that that's not

3580
02:18:05,270 --> 02:18:02,639
there were no launches scheduled

3581
02:18:06,870 --> 02:18:05,280
you'd you you wouldn't have two kids

3582
02:18:08,309 --> 02:18:06,880
going out in the desert lots of balloon

3583
02:18:09,429 --> 02:18:08,319
or they would probably kill themselves

3584
02:18:12,790 --> 02:18:09,439
but

3585
02:18:13,589 --> 02:18:12,800
then the the object went into a stiff 40

3586
02:18:16,709 --> 02:18:13,599
mile an hour

3587
02:18:19,589 --> 02:18:16,719
uh front that was coming in at the time

3588
02:18:19,910 --> 02:18:19,599
and went about six miles and you know

3589
02:18:23,910 --> 02:18:19,920
and

3590
02:18:26,070 --> 02:18:23,920
good speed so

3591
02:18:27,589 --> 02:18:26,080
all indications are that none of the

3592
02:18:30,150 --> 02:18:27,599
actions of this craft

3593
02:18:31,910 --> 02:18:30,160
are anywhere close to a bloom and then

3594
02:18:35,429 --> 02:18:31,920
we have this letter

3595
02:18:38,070 --> 02:18:35,439
this is from 1981 uh

3596
02:18:39,589 --> 02:18:38,080
from c.b moore who's a professor

3597
02:18:42,950 --> 02:18:39,599
atmospheric physics

3598
02:18:46,469 --> 02:18:42,960
and chairman uh at

3599
02:18:49,790 --> 02:18:46,479
the legmar uh laboratory he says here

3600
02:18:51,110 --> 02:18:49,800
uh and i'm quoting in regard to the

3601
02:18:54,389 --> 02:18:51,120
unidentified

3602
02:18:56,070 --> 02:18:54,399
sighting by officer zamora in 1964 i

3603
02:18:59,349 --> 02:18:56,080
have investigated this case

3604
02:19:02,309 --> 02:18:59,359
ad nauseam and

3605
02:19:03,750 --> 02:19:02,319
can assure you that there is little

3606
02:19:06,709 --> 02:19:03,760
probability

3607
02:19:07,750 --> 02:19:06,719
that it had anything to do with students

3608
02:19:10,950 --> 02:19:07,760
or

3609
02:19:12,389 --> 02:19:10,960
the institute if we can believe in it

3610
02:19:16,070 --> 02:19:12,399
goes on uh offers

3611
02:19:18,950 --> 02:19:16,080
officer uh zamora he says

3612
02:19:20,389 --> 02:19:18,960
then it appears that he saw a lunar

3613
02:19:24,950 --> 02:19:20,399
landing module

3614
02:19:25,349 --> 02:19:24,960
uh the limb but his observation was at

3615
02:19:28,549 --> 02:19:25,359
least

3616
02:19:31,669 --> 02:19:28,559
12 months before the module was

3617
02:19:33,910 --> 02:19:31,679
first tested here that

3618
02:19:35,509 --> 02:19:33,920
is if there's a you know you know what i

3619
02:19:39,349 --> 02:19:35,519
mean if there's a smoking gun

3620
02:19:40,230 --> 02:19:39,359
is this it yeah it's just more

3621
02:19:42,709 --> 02:19:40,240
confirmation

3622
02:19:45,030 --> 02:19:42,719
that you know people in the know that

3623
02:19:48,469 --> 02:19:45,040
had the ability to look at all the data

3624
02:19:51,670 --> 02:19:48,479
just couldn't find any evidence of this

3625
02:19:53,990 --> 02:19:51,680
type of thing happening um and it was

3626
02:19:54,870 --> 02:19:54,000
i you know when i found that document it

3627
02:19:57,429 --> 02:19:54,880
was just

3628
02:19:59,190 --> 02:19:57,439
another confirmation that other people

3629
02:20:01,030 --> 02:19:59,200
inquired that were

3630
02:20:02,469 --> 02:20:01,040
either associated with the university or

3631
02:20:05,030 --> 02:20:02,479
with the military

3632
02:20:06,070 --> 02:20:05,040
and could not figure out you know they

3633
02:20:08,870 --> 02:20:06,080
had to just

3634
02:20:10,309 --> 02:20:08,880
dismiss the fact that it didn't appear

3635
02:20:13,510 --> 02:20:10,319
to be a hoax

3636
02:20:15,030 --> 02:20:13,520
and the fact that this guy uh mr moore

3637
02:20:17,190 --> 02:20:15,040
would go to the great leagues to even

3638
02:20:19,429 --> 02:20:17,200
look into it just tells you

3639
02:20:21,110 --> 02:20:19,439
even in 84 there was a lot of interest

3640
02:20:22,870 --> 02:20:21,120
in this case because

3641
02:20:24,550 --> 02:20:22,880
here we are in 2000 and it's still

3642
02:20:27,190 --> 02:20:24,560
listed as an unknown

3643
02:20:28,469 --> 02:20:27,200
because there's nothing to explain what

3644
02:20:31,750 --> 02:20:28,479
lonnie saw there

3645
02:20:34,950 --> 02:20:31,760
now when you look at and you go back and

3646
02:20:37,670 --> 02:20:34,960
and look at the historical images

3647
02:20:39,429 --> 02:20:37,680
of the original llrv which was the

3648
02:20:40,630 --> 02:20:39,439
prototype for the lunar lander which

3649
02:20:43,110 --> 02:20:40,640
they had to do they had to test the

3650
02:20:47,030 --> 02:20:43,120
landing gear and the engines and things

3651
02:20:50,150 --> 02:20:47,040
this is nothing but an erector set

3652
02:20:54,469 --> 02:20:50,160
right it's it's the opposite of

3653
02:20:57,510 --> 02:20:54,479
an egg-shaped craft this is a spinely

3654
02:20:58,230 --> 02:20:57,520
uh prototype that lonnie would have

3655
02:21:03,270 --> 02:20:58,240
identified

3656
02:21:06,070 --> 02:21:03,280
right away if if it indeed was was that

3657
02:21:07,590 --> 02:21:06,080
yeah the first the first time it

3658
02:21:08,230 --> 02:21:07,600
actually lifted off the ground it wasn't

3659
02:21:10,070 --> 02:21:08,240
supposed to

3660
02:21:11,510 --> 02:21:10,080
kind of freaked out the one pilot that

3661
02:21:14,710 --> 02:21:11,520
was sitting in it

3662
02:21:17,590 --> 02:21:14,720
um it wasn't designed to fly

3663
02:21:19,270 --> 02:21:17,600
for longer than i don't think the test

3664
02:21:21,830 --> 02:21:19,280
lights lasted more than

3665
02:21:22,550 --> 02:21:21,840
two minutes at the longest some i think

3666
02:21:25,590 --> 02:21:22,560
30

3667
02:21:28,550 --> 02:21:25,600
thing was designed

3668
02:21:29,670 --> 02:21:28,560
to fly outside of the atmosphere and it

3669
02:21:32,870 --> 02:21:29,680
certainly wouldn't you know

3670
02:21:34,469 --> 02:21:32,880
go off six miles off into the distance

3671
02:21:36,630 --> 02:21:34,479
everything about the lander is wrong it

3672
02:21:39,190 --> 02:21:36,640
wasn't operational at the time they own

3673
02:21:40,790 --> 02:21:39,200
their own documents that are in the book

3674
02:21:41,349 --> 02:21:40,800
show that they investigated the lunar

3675
02:21:43,349 --> 02:21:41,359
lander

3676
02:21:45,429 --> 02:21:43,359
but that they had determined that there

3677
02:21:47,830 --> 02:21:45,439
was no way it could be that and

3678
02:21:49,910 --> 02:21:47,840
hughes laboratory and nasa and bell labs

3679
02:21:52,150 --> 02:21:49,920
and all made parts for the lunar lander

3680
02:21:53,990 --> 02:21:52,160
had all these documents that showed

3681
02:21:55,830 --> 02:21:54,000
because they asked about the struts you

3682
02:21:58,309 --> 02:21:55,840
know what what with the landed

3683
02:22:00,469 --> 02:21:58,319
the configuration of the struts which

3684
02:22:02,150 --> 02:22:00,479
none of the struts ever matched the

3685
02:22:03,750 --> 02:22:02,160
the four indentations of the craft

3686
02:22:05,510 --> 02:22:03,760
atlanta socorro so

3687
02:22:06,950 --> 02:22:05,520
they kept running these dead ends

3688
02:22:08,870 --> 02:22:06,960
there's documents about

3689
02:22:10,630 --> 02:22:08,880
inquiring about the symbol and the

3690
02:22:12,710 --> 02:22:10,640
government came back and said no

3691
02:22:13,830 --> 02:22:12,720
all of our crafts have an n followed by

3692
02:22:16,389 --> 02:22:13,840
these numbers or

3693
02:22:17,030 --> 02:22:16,399
or this format which you know certainly

3694
02:22:20,309 --> 02:22:17,040
wasn't an

3695
02:22:21,349 --> 02:22:20,319
inverted v or three bars so it just it's

3696
02:22:23,750 --> 02:22:21,359
interesting to see

3697
02:22:25,590 --> 02:22:23,760
how frustrating their search was and

3698
02:22:27,270 --> 02:22:25,600
they kept running into dead ends

3699
02:22:31,590 --> 02:22:27,280
everywhere they looked

3700
02:22:34,710 --> 02:22:31,600
now one of the coolest documents

3701
02:22:36,790 --> 02:22:34,720
in the book from a project blue book you

3702
02:22:37,910 --> 02:22:36,800
have i think it's in chapter eight or

3703
02:22:41,110 --> 02:22:37,920
chapter nine

3704
02:22:44,389 --> 02:22:41,120
but it says project 100 100

3705
02:22:46,550 --> 02:22:44,399
73 uh record card

3706
02:22:48,830 --> 02:22:46,560
and what is interesting here because

3707
02:22:50,309 --> 02:22:48,840
it's got it all the day 24th of april

3708
02:22:53,750 --> 02:22:50,319
1964.

3709
02:22:54,230 --> 02:22:53,760
uh witness uh in the comments here it

3710
02:22:57,110 --> 02:22:54,240
says

3711
02:22:58,150 --> 02:22:57,120
uh brief summary of citing sighting of

3712
02:23:01,110 --> 02:22:58,160
landing by

3713
02:23:02,389 --> 02:23:01,120
lonnie zamora c case files right but in

3714
02:23:05,110 --> 02:23:02,399
box number 11

3715
02:23:06,870 --> 02:23:05,120
and everything's here the time and and

3716
02:23:09,910 --> 02:23:06,880
so forth source civilian

3717
02:23:11,190 --> 02:23:09,920
and and and so forth but it says uh in

3718
02:23:14,389 --> 02:23:11,200
box number 12

3719
02:23:17,670 --> 02:23:14,399
uh uh conclusions right

3720
02:23:19,270 --> 02:23:17,680
was balloon possibly a balloon right

3721
02:23:22,790 --> 02:23:19,280
probably a balloon

3722
02:23:24,550 --> 02:23:22,800
a war aircraft uh war astronomical blah

3723
02:23:28,389 --> 02:23:24,560
blah blah and then it goes to other

3724
02:23:31,510 --> 02:23:28,399
right and it says unidentified

3725
02:23:32,070 --> 02:23:31,520
and then in box number 11 here are the

3726
02:23:34,870 --> 02:23:32,080
comments

3727
02:23:36,389 --> 02:23:34,880
i want your reaction to this initially

3728
02:23:39,030 --> 02:23:36,399
believed to be

3729
02:23:40,550 --> 02:23:39,040
observation of lunar module type

3730
02:23:44,150 --> 02:23:40,560
configuration

3731
02:23:47,990 --> 02:23:44,160
effort to date cannot place vehicle at

3732
02:23:50,870 --> 02:23:48,000
site case carried as unidentified

3733
02:23:53,030 --> 02:23:50,880
pending additional data that's pretty

3734
02:23:54,870 --> 02:23:53,040
remarkable for project blue book isn't

3735
02:23:57,590 --> 02:23:54,880
it

3736
02:23:58,070 --> 02:23:57,600
yeah yeah they they inquired you know

3737
02:23:59,670 --> 02:23:58,080
and

3738
02:24:01,830 --> 02:23:59,680
all these guys had to answer the

3739
02:24:03,750 --> 02:24:01,840
inquiries and they said that the test

3740
02:24:06,790 --> 02:24:03,760
that they had scheduled for april

3741
02:24:09,030 --> 02:24:06,800
24th was cancelled and the test was to

3742
02:24:10,230 --> 02:24:09,040
drop you know to test the integrity of

3743
02:24:13,030 --> 02:24:10,240
the struts

3744
02:24:15,349 --> 02:24:13,040
um by dropping it from a bell a

3745
02:24:18,389 --> 02:24:15,359
helicopter a few feet off the ground

3746
02:24:19,750 --> 02:24:18,399
and um that he eventually became one of

3747
02:24:21,429 --> 02:24:19,760
the explanations it was the bell

3748
02:24:22,790 --> 02:24:21,439
helicopter towing the louvre lander

3749
02:24:26,389 --> 02:24:22,800
which is ludicrous

3750
02:24:27,030 --> 02:24:26,399
at best but they quickly dismissed that

3751
02:24:29,670 --> 02:24:27,040
because

3752
02:24:30,389 --> 02:24:29,680
you know um the companies that were

3753
02:24:32,710 --> 02:24:30,399
building this

3754
02:24:33,429 --> 02:24:32,720
all said it just was not operational it

3755
02:24:36,150 --> 02:24:33,439
really

3756
02:24:37,270 --> 02:24:36,160
and i think it first actually had its

3757
02:24:40,950 --> 02:24:37,280
real test flight

3758
02:24:44,309 --> 02:24:40,960
in october of uh of that year

3759
02:24:45,830 --> 02:24:44,319
much later so the whole point of the

3760
02:24:47,590 --> 02:24:45,840
lunar lander it's kind of like when you

3761
02:24:49,270 --> 02:24:47,600
talk about roswell and just go weather

3762
02:24:51,750 --> 02:24:49,280
balloon you know that's the default

3763
02:24:52,389 --> 02:24:51,760
explanation for squirrel was lunar

3764
02:24:54,309 --> 02:24:52,399
lander

3765
02:24:56,790 --> 02:24:54,319
and a lot of people believe that but the

3766
02:24:57,349 --> 02:24:56,800
evidence certainly points a hundred

3767
02:24:59,349 --> 02:24:57,359
percent

3768
02:25:01,030 --> 02:24:59,359
away from that being an explanation at

3769
02:25:02,710 --> 02:25:01,040
all well that's what blue book that's

3770
02:25:06,309 --> 02:25:02,720
what hynek tried to do

3771
02:25:08,070 --> 02:25:06,319
right he tried to get his answers so he

3772
02:25:09,750 --> 02:25:08,080
went to all of the companies all the

3773
02:25:11,270 --> 02:25:09,760
civilian companies he went to all the

3774
02:25:14,070 --> 02:25:11,280
branches of the government

3775
02:25:14,630 --> 02:25:14,080
he contacted everybody about what types

3776
02:25:17,750 --> 02:25:14,640
of

3777
02:25:18,630 --> 02:25:17,760
black projects black programs public

3778
02:25:20,630 --> 02:25:18,640
programs

3779
02:25:22,070 --> 02:25:20,640
any craft that could have been out there

3780
02:25:24,070 --> 02:25:22,080
in the desert because

3781
02:25:25,429 --> 02:25:24,080
they needed that answer they wanted to

3782
02:25:28,710 --> 02:25:25,439
plug that in

3783
02:25:30,710 --> 02:25:28,720
and they did not get that did they they

3784
02:25:32,870 --> 02:25:30,720
absolutely did their best to chase it

3785
02:25:35,990 --> 02:25:32,880
down

3786
02:25:36,389 --> 02:25:36,000
yeah and that's why if you uh remember

3787
02:25:39,990 --> 02:25:36,399
the

3788
02:25:42,710 --> 02:25:40,000
captain holder

3789
02:25:44,710 --> 02:25:42,720
even he was baffled that the joint chief

3790
02:25:46,309 --> 02:25:44,720
of staffs were contacting them six

3791
02:25:48,389 --> 02:25:46,319
months after the incident

3792
02:25:50,630 --> 02:25:48,399
and kept asking us asking them questions

3793
02:25:51,990 --> 02:25:50,640
and he's like i can't understand why

3794
02:25:55,110 --> 02:25:52,000
they're still on me about this

3795
02:25:56,070 --> 02:25:55,120
case and that is just an indication that

3796
02:26:00,309 --> 02:25:56,080
they

3797
02:26:02,309 --> 02:26:00,319
really wanted an answer because the

3798
02:26:04,309 --> 02:26:02,319
the point i brought up in the book was

3799
02:26:06,469 --> 02:26:04,319
the great fear then would be all right

3800
02:26:09,190 --> 02:26:06,479
if it's not a black project

3801
02:26:10,870 --> 02:26:09,200
then either china or russia has

3802
02:26:12,870 --> 02:26:10,880
something that we're not aware of and

3803
02:26:14,710 --> 02:26:12,880
that's even more terrifying

3804
02:26:16,630 --> 02:26:14,720
so the scramble was on to find an

3805
02:26:18,630 --> 02:26:16,640
explanation because they were probably

3806
02:26:21,030 --> 02:26:18,640
would have felt a lot better

3807
02:26:22,710 --> 02:26:21,040
if they found a terrestrial explanation

3808
02:26:25,429 --> 02:26:22,720
but because they kept

3809
02:26:27,670 --> 02:26:25,439
not finding an answer that probably

3810
02:26:30,710 --> 02:26:27,680
scared them even more

3811
02:26:31,830 --> 02:26:30,720
it's such a great find with uh rob

3812
02:26:34,309 --> 02:26:31,840
mercer

3813
02:26:36,469 --> 02:26:34,319
and the documents not all of them but a

3814
02:26:38,630 --> 02:26:36,479
bunch of them are reproduced here

3815
02:26:39,990 --> 02:26:38,640
and they are just a fantastic read and

3816
02:26:43,670 --> 02:26:40,000
you go through

3817
02:26:46,150 --> 02:26:43,680
and you can see that uh and i'm so

3818
02:26:47,510 --> 02:26:46,160
glad that rob was you know cruising

3819
02:26:50,710 --> 02:26:47,520
around craigslist

3820
02:26:53,190 --> 02:26:50,720
right to to look at this because

3821
02:26:56,469 --> 02:26:53,200
uh the breakdown of the investigation is

3822
02:26:59,910 --> 02:26:56,479
here radar surveillance soil samples

3823
02:27:00,950 --> 02:26:59,920
uh the check about uh helicopter

3824
02:27:03,990 --> 02:27:00,960
activity

3825
02:27:06,950 --> 02:27:04,000
in 1964 right

3826
02:27:07,750 --> 02:27:06,960
it's all here it's all in the report

3827
02:27:11,110 --> 02:27:07,760
including

3828
02:27:14,230 --> 02:27:11,120
uh the radio activity and and so forth

3829
02:27:16,790 --> 02:27:14,240
uh very interesting and the vtol

3830
02:27:17,670 --> 02:27:16,800
and and how they went to go look at any

3831
02:27:20,870 --> 02:27:17,680
type of

3832
02:27:21,990 --> 02:27:20,880
of aircraft uh additional witnesses it's

3833
02:27:24,790 --> 02:27:22,000
all here

3834
02:27:28,710 --> 02:27:24,800
in these uh uh craigslist documents it's

3835
02:27:32,070 --> 02:27:31,510
thanks man i appreciate it uh you know

3836
02:27:33,990 --> 02:27:32,080
it's uh

3837
02:27:35,830 --> 02:27:34,000
i've never realized how hard it is to

3838
02:27:37,990 --> 02:27:35,840
write a book um

3839
02:27:39,750 --> 02:27:38,000
with the intent of telling the story

3840
02:27:42,070 --> 02:27:39,760
completely and truthfully

3841
02:27:44,550 --> 02:27:42,080
using all the available data and

3842
02:27:46,550 --> 02:27:44,560
anything else i could uncover

3843
02:27:47,670 --> 02:27:46,560
if i realized it was going to be this

3844
02:27:49,030 --> 02:27:47,680
hard i

3845
02:27:51,429 --> 02:27:49,040
probably wouldn't have done it in the

3846
02:27:53,429 --> 02:27:51,439
first place but i'm glad i did because i

3847
02:27:55,750 --> 02:27:53,439
really wanted to get the story

3848
02:27:57,190 --> 02:27:55,760
set straight you know all the data's

3849
02:27:59,110 --> 02:27:57,200
there in the book you can make your own

3850
02:27:59,750 --> 02:27:59,120
decision as to what might have happened

3851
02:28:01,910 --> 02:27:59,760
but

3852
02:28:03,110 --> 02:28:01,920
i just wanted to present all sides of

3853
02:28:05,510 --> 02:28:03,120
the story

3854
02:28:06,710 --> 02:28:05,520
with documentation showing what what's

3855
02:28:08,309 --> 02:28:06,720
right what's not

3856
02:28:10,790 --> 02:28:08,319
quite right and what you need to think

3857
02:28:13,429 --> 02:28:10,800
about so that

3858
02:28:15,110 --> 02:28:13,439
we can correct the you know as i said in

3859
02:28:16,309 --> 02:28:15,120
the beginning you know history is told

3860
02:28:18,389 --> 02:28:16,319
by the winners and

3861
02:28:20,230 --> 02:28:18,399
over time it's confabulated and it's

3862
02:28:22,389 --> 02:28:20,240
told the wrong way and

3863
02:28:24,389 --> 02:28:22,399
the old thing if you tell 10 people a

3864
02:28:27,110 --> 02:28:24,399
story by the time it gets to the 10th

3865
02:28:29,190 --> 02:28:27,120
person if they each tell one person it's

3866
02:28:31,030 --> 02:28:29,200
completely different from the story that

3867
02:28:33,590 --> 02:28:31,040
the first person told

3868
02:28:35,510 --> 02:28:33,600
so i felt like amalgamating all the data

3869
02:28:38,469 --> 02:28:35,520
and bringing it back

3870
02:28:39,990 --> 02:28:38,479
together in one place would give the

3871
02:28:42,550 --> 02:28:40,000
reader a chance to see how

3872
02:28:43,349 --> 02:28:42,560
important this case was how a close

3873
02:28:45,030 --> 02:28:43,359
encounter the

3874
02:28:47,429 --> 02:28:45,040
third kind with a lot of evidence

3875
02:28:50,710 --> 02:28:47,439
actually did occur in the united states

3876
02:28:52,950 --> 02:28:50,720
and um you know was also probably

3877
02:28:54,389 --> 02:28:52,960
one of the reasons why steven spielberg

3878
02:28:57,429 --> 02:28:54,399
did his movie

3879
02:28:58,710 --> 02:28:57,439
and um had dr heineck on as a consultant

3880
02:29:00,469 --> 02:28:58,720
on that but uh

3881
02:29:02,070 --> 02:29:00,479
very important case that it just didn't

3882
02:29:05,510 --> 02:29:02,080
want to be lost in time

3883
02:29:08,070 --> 02:29:05,520
no and it is an important case and

3884
02:29:09,429 --> 02:29:08,080
when everybody gets the book and you

3885
02:29:13,030 --> 02:29:09,439
start looking through this

3886
02:29:16,309 --> 02:29:13,040
and you look at uh how

3887
02:29:19,590 --> 02:29:16,319
doggedly uh uh quentin tia

3888
02:29:21,830 --> 02:29:19,600
and and uh heinek

3889
02:29:23,270 --> 02:29:21,840
went after all of these companies going

3890
02:29:24,469 --> 02:29:23,280
okay what's up with your landing gear

3891
02:29:25,910 --> 02:29:24,479
what were you doing

3892
02:29:28,070 --> 02:29:25,920
uh what were we doing in this time

3893
02:29:28,870 --> 02:29:28,080
period we you know this and and you see

3894
02:29:31,510 --> 02:29:28,880
it right there

3895
02:29:33,590 --> 02:29:31,520
written on wright patterson letterhead

3896
02:29:35,910 --> 02:29:33,600
and hughes aircraft and

3897
02:29:36,710 --> 02:29:35,920
and everybody else replying back well

3898
02:29:39,270 --> 02:29:36,720
you know and

3899
02:29:40,309 --> 02:29:39,280
and you can see it right here how they

3900
02:29:42,630 --> 02:29:40,319
chased this down

3901
02:29:43,710 --> 02:29:42,640
and came up with well you know what this

3902
02:29:45,910 --> 02:29:43,720
is going to remain

3903
02:29:47,030 --> 02:29:45,920
unidentified it's absolutely an

3904
02:29:48,950 --> 02:29:47,040
incredible read

3905
02:29:50,150 --> 02:29:48,960
thank you so much ben the book is

3906
02:29:52,710 --> 02:29:50,160
fantastic

3907
02:29:55,110 --> 02:29:52,720
everybody can go to ben's facebook page

3908
02:29:57,270 --> 02:29:55,120
the links are at jimmychurchradio.com

3909
02:29:59,590 --> 02:29:57,280
go say hello to ben and tell them you

3910
02:30:01,349 --> 02:29:59,600
want a copy of the book

3911
02:30:04,230 --> 02:30:01,359
ben i look forward to you and i hanging

3912
02:30:07,270 --> 02:30:04,240
out again hopefully sometime in 2021

3913
02:30:09,270 --> 02:30:07,280
when we get this year behind us

3914
02:30:11,110 --> 02:30:09,280
yes sir i appreciate it thanks yeah

3915
02:30:11,750 --> 02:30:11,120
let's put kobe behind us and move

3916
02:30:14,070 --> 02:30:11,760
forward

3917
02:30:14,790 --> 02:30:14,080
that's what i'm talking about ben moss

3918
02:30:18,070 --> 02:30:14,800
thank you ben

3919
02:30:19,830 --> 02:30:18,080
enjoy the rest of your evening thank you

3920
02:30:23,030 --> 02:30:19,840
sir you do the same

3921
02:30:26,150 --> 02:30:23,040
ben moss very simple the links are over

3922
02:30:28,309 --> 02:30:26,160
at jimmychurchradio.com and

3923
02:30:29,590 --> 02:30:28,319
ben has self-published this book it's a

3924
02:30:32,389 --> 02:30:29,600
great read

3925
02:30:33,750 --> 02:30:32,399
go and let him know over on facebook and

3926
02:30:34,710 --> 02:30:33,760
he'll tell you what to do to get

3927
02:30:37,030 --> 02:30:34,720
yourself

3928
02:30:38,630 --> 02:30:37,040
a copy this is fade to black i'm yours

3929
02:30:39,670 --> 02:30:38,640
jimmy church i'll be right back after

3930
02:30:41,429 --> 02:30:39,680
this short break

3931
02:30:46,130 --> 02:30:41,439
and i'm going to open up the phone lines

3932
02:30:58,830 --> 02:30:46,140
stay with me

3933
02:31:02,630 --> 02:30:58,840
[Music]

3934
02:31:06,870 --> 02:31:04,950
hey what up y'all biblical fox here and

3935
02:31:12,070 --> 02:31:06,880
you are listening to my boy

3936
02:31:22,710 --> 02:31:15,349
despite popular opinion reading a book

3937
02:31:26,469 --> 02:31:24,389
this is jimmy church of fade to black

3938
02:31:29,670 --> 02:31:26,479
and i take life change t

3939
02:31:30,309 --> 02:31:29,680
supplements every single day it's what i

3940
02:31:32,830 --> 02:31:30,319
do

3941
02:31:36,469 --> 02:31:32,840
click on their banner at

3942
02:31:39,510 --> 02:31:38,630
when you take the beans from central

3943
02:31:41,830 --> 02:31:39,520
america

3944
02:31:42,550 --> 02:31:41,840
with dashes of indonesian and african

3945
02:31:44,790 --> 02:31:42,560
mixed in

3946
02:31:46,150 --> 02:31:44,800
and then roasted to the dark side of

3947
02:31:49,429 --> 02:31:46,160
fade to black

3948
02:31:52,309 --> 02:31:49,439
you create the ultimate brew of fringe

3949
02:31:53,990 --> 02:31:52,319
introducing the fade to black blend from

3950
02:31:57,030 --> 02:31:54,000
river moon coffee

3951
02:31:59,110 --> 02:31:57,040
yes river moon's darkest customized

3952
02:32:02,309 --> 02:31:59,120
roast was created for the love

3953
02:32:05,110 --> 02:32:02,319
of fade to black the alchemy of

3954
02:32:06,309 --> 02:32:05,120
masterful roasting and smoking the beans

3955
02:32:09,990 --> 02:32:06,319
is in every sip

3956
02:32:12,950 --> 02:32:10,000
of this full-bodied dark java i need my

3957
02:32:14,950 --> 02:32:12,960
coffee doc deep with distinct

3958
02:32:17,510 --> 02:32:14,960
bittersweet chocolate highlights

3959
02:32:19,510 --> 02:32:17,520
just like the bunker leaning further

3960
02:32:22,150 --> 02:32:19,520
into the darkness of the roast

3961
02:32:23,030 --> 02:32:22,160
is fade to black blend from river moon

3962
02:32:24,830 --> 02:32:23,040
coffee

3963
02:32:26,790 --> 02:32:24,840
just click on the banner at

3964
02:32:27,190 --> 02:32:26,800
jimmychurchradio.com and use the promo

3965
02:32:31,670 --> 02:32:27,200
code

3966
02:32:35,190 --> 02:32:31,680
f2b blend for 15 off of your order today

3967
02:32:38,870 --> 02:32:37,190
hello my name is billy carson and i'm a

3968
02:32:41,030 --> 02:32:38,880
best-selling author and the founder of

3969
02:32:42,630 --> 02:32:41,040
forbidden knowledge dot tv together with

3970
02:32:44,469 --> 02:32:42,640
my team we have built a all new

3971
02:32:46,070 --> 02:32:44,479
conscious streaming tv platform

3972
02:32:47,990 --> 02:32:46,080
designed with every family member in

3973
02:32:49,270 --> 02:32:48,000
mind if you have ever wanted to travel

3974
02:32:50,790 --> 02:32:49,280
the world and attend lectures and

3975
02:32:53,110 --> 02:32:50,800
workshops from your favorite speakers

3976
02:32:55,670 --> 02:32:53,120
who weren't able to look no further

3977
02:32:57,429 --> 02:32:55,680
forbidden knowledge dot tv there are

3978
02:32:58,790 --> 02:32:57,439
dozens of workshops and lectures from

3979
02:33:00,870 --> 02:32:58,800
speakers you know and love

3980
02:33:02,790 --> 02:33:00,880
we have also included amazing categories

3981
02:33:04,550 --> 02:33:02,800
to assure that your consciousness is

3982
02:33:05,190 --> 02:33:04,560
entertained and elevating on a daily

3983
02:33:07,349 --> 02:33:05,200
basis

3984
02:33:08,469 --> 02:33:07,359
amazing interviews ancient history

3985
02:33:10,550 --> 02:33:08,479
ascension knowledge

3986
02:33:11,670 --> 02:33:10,560
wisdom teachings documentaries

3987
02:33:13,910 --> 02:33:11,680
conspiracies

3988
02:33:15,830 --> 02:33:13,920
mysteries health and fitness conscious

3989
02:33:17,990 --> 02:33:15,840
cooking meditations finance

3990
02:33:20,389 --> 02:33:18,000
yoga and so much more to start your free

3991
02:33:23,030 --> 02:33:20,399
trial on any mobile device or computer

3992
02:33:23,590 --> 02:33:23,040
surf to forbidden knowledge dot tv

3993
02:33:25,590 --> 02:33:23,600
that's

3994
02:33:27,190 --> 02:33:25,600
forbidden knowledge with the number four

3995
02:33:30,309 --> 02:33:27,200
forbidden knowledge dot

3996
02:33:34,150 --> 02:33:30,319
tv

3997
02:33:36,870 --> 02:33:34,160
today are you intrigued by paranormal

3998
02:33:37,750 --> 02:33:36,880
talk radio you love the new paranormal

3999
02:33:40,630 --> 02:33:37,760
radio app

4000
02:33:42,550 --> 02:33:40,640
from talk stream live you'll find a

4001
02:33:43,590 --> 02:33:42,560
great selection of talk shows covering

4002
02:33:46,710 --> 02:33:43,600
ufos

4003
02:33:49,110 --> 02:33:46,720
ghosts strange phenomena and much more

4004
02:33:50,870 --> 02:33:49,120
download the paranormal radio app now

4005
02:33:52,790 --> 02:33:50,880
and start listening to the very best in

4006
02:33:54,309 --> 02:33:52,800
paranormal talk entertainment

4007
02:33:57,190 --> 02:33:54,319
including the network you're listening

4008
02:34:00,830 --> 02:33:57,200
to right now the paranormal radio app

4009
02:34:15,590 --> 02:34:00,840
free in google play and the ios app

4010
02:34:35,860 --> 02:34:21,830
com

4011
02:34:35,870 --> 02:34:43,670
[Music]

4012
02:34:47,349 --> 02:34:45,429
all right welcome back paid to black i'm

4013
02:34:50,469 --> 02:34:47,359
your host jimmy church

4014
02:34:54,270 --> 02:34:50,479
i want to thank ben moss what a a

4015
02:34:58,389 --> 02:34:54,280
great compelling case socorro

4016
02:35:00,389 --> 02:34:58,399
1964. man lonnie zamora uh

4017
02:35:02,309 --> 02:35:00,399
absolutely incredible i have just

4018
02:35:03,030 --> 02:35:02,319
unlocked the phone lines right now as i

4019
02:35:06,309 --> 02:35:03,040
sat down

4020
02:35:06,710 --> 02:35:06,319
seven four seven two two eight two zero

4021
02:35:08,790 --> 02:35:06,720
five

4022
02:35:10,230 --> 02:35:08,800
one seven four seven two two eight two

4023
02:35:13,830 --> 02:35:10,240
zero five one

4024
02:35:17,190 --> 02:35:13,840
uh i i want to hear from you this is

4025
02:35:20,950 --> 02:35:17,200
this is one of the the cases when we

4026
02:35:23,349 --> 02:35:20,960
look back and of course we have roswell

4027
02:35:26,150 --> 02:35:23,359
and i've stated so many times uh that

4028
02:35:28,710 --> 02:35:26,160
travis walton and randall shim uh

4029
02:35:29,910 --> 02:35:28,720
are so important and it's the lonnie

4030
02:35:32,469 --> 02:35:29,920
zamora

4031
02:35:33,830 --> 02:35:32,479
uh socorro case that i keep going back

4032
02:35:37,110 --> 02:35:33,840
to with

4033
02:35:40,230 --> 02:35:37,120
uh just fascination it is

4034
02:35:40,950 --> 02:35:40,240
such a compelling case one that and we

4035
02:35:44,309 --> 02:35:40,960
cannot

4036
02:35:47,590 --> 02:35:44,319
ignore uh so many elements

4037
02:35:50,630 --> 02:35:47,600
of this uh that happen so quickly

4038
02:35:53,349 --> 02:35:50,640
and and first and foremost

4039
02:35:54,150 --> 02:35:53,359
uh when we break down the timeline and

4040
02:35:57,270 --> 02:35:54,160
the way that

4041
02:35:59,510 --> 02:35:57,280
uh ben does this in his book and he does

4042
02:36:02,150 --> 02:35:59,520
it repeatedly

4043
02:36:02,550 --> 02:36:02,160
from different witnesses and researchers

4044
02:36:05,910 --> 02:36:02,560
uh

4045
02:36:09,670 --> 02:36:05,920
that were there in a row is

4046
02:36:13,349 --> 02:36:09,680
the timeline of events this entire

4047
02:36:14,230 --> 02:36:13,359
this entire sighting probably lasted no

4048
02:36:18,150 --> 02:36:14,240
more than

4049
02:36:20,630 --> 02:36:18,160
just a few minutes and uh

4050
02:36:22,389 --> 02:36:20,640
sergeant chavez of the state police and

4051
02:36:25,590 --> 02:36:22,399
new mexico state police

4052
02:36:28,230 --> 02:36:25,600
was on the scene by his own account uh

4053
02:36:30,469 --> 02:36:28,240
about two minutes everything happened uh

4054
02:36:33,349 --> 02:36:30,479
with uh the radio dispatch

4055
02:36:35,270 --> 02:36:33,359
uh lonnie saying okay he's he's pulling

4056
02:36:38,389 --> 02:36:35,280
onto the scene

4057
02:36:40,150 --> 02:36:38,399
from there he radios back out chavez is

4058
02:36:41,270 --> 02:36:40,160
already listening to what is happening

4059
02:36:44,230 --> 02:36:41,280
he's in route

4060
02:36:47,270 --> 02:36:44,240
he gets there two minutes after uh

4061
02:36:50,150 --> 02:36:47,280
lonnie reached out a second time

4062
02:36:51,830 --> 02:36:50,160
and and he's on the case on the scene

4063
02:36:57,110 --> 02:36:51,840
immediately

4064
02:37:00,630 --> 02:36:57,120
and what lonnie told him as he arrived

4065
02:37:03,510 --> 02:37:00,640
what had just happened is is is all

4066
02:37:04,070 --> 02:37:03,520
accounted for everything is right there

4067
02:37:07,670 --> 02:37:04,080
how it

4068
02:37:09,590 --> 02:37:07,680
stress this

4069
02:37:11,590 --> 02:37:09,600
is that captain holder of the united

4070
02:37:14,630 --> 02:37:11,600
states air force is on the scene

4071
02:37:17,030 --> 02:37:14,640
he's got his people there and

4072
02:37:19,190 --> 02:37:17,040
uh uh just like ben said they

4073
02:37:21,590 --> 02:37:19,200
immediately cordoned off the area

4074
02:37:22,950 --> 02:37:21,600
and they are looking for other evidence

4075
02:37:24,550 --> 02:37:22,960
they're looking for footprints they're

4076
02:37:29,190 --> 02:37:24,560
looking for anything

4077
02:37:33,190 --> 02:37:31,110
that they found on the ground were these

4078
02:37:35,990 --> 02:37:33,200
four impressions

4079
02:37:37,750 --> 02:37:36,000
and those were measured out uh those

4080
02:37:38,870 --> 02:37:37,760
were there and then the two round

4081
02:37:41,110 --> 02:37:38,880
circular marks

4082
02:37:43,030 --> 02:37:41,120
that were there but there were no other

4083
02:37:45,750 --> 02:37:43,040
additional footprints

4084
02:37:47,190 --> 02:37:45,760
and uh any indication that there was

4085
02:37:50,389 --> 02:37:47,200
anybody else at the scene

4086
02:37:54,070 --> 02:37:50,399
except for lonnie zamora uh

4087
02:37:57,030 --> 02:37:54,080
very very interesting and then

4088
02:37:57,830 --> 02:37:57,040
of course heinek j allen heineck is on

4089
02:38:01,830 --> 02:37:57,840
the scene

4090
02:38:04,790 --> 02:38:01,840
was

4091
02:38:05,670 --> 02:38:04,800
um and i've read this over the years

4092
02:38:08,070 --> 02:38:05,680
many times

4093
02:38:09,670 --> 02:38:08,080
there was another there was like a house

4094
02:38:11,830 --> 02:38:09,680
that was there

4095
02:38:12,950 --> 02:38:11,840
uh that they were taking the witnesses

4096
02:38:16,309 --> 02:38:12,960
into and

4097
02:38:19,750 --> 02:38:16,319
and interviewing and ray stamford was

4098
02:38:20,230 --> 02:38:19,760
part of that too as well and uh trying

4099
02:38:22,150 --> 02:38:20,240
to get

4100
02:38:24,309 --> 02:38:22,160
everything that they could from the very

4101
02:38:27,190 --> 02:38:24,319
beginning why

4102
02:38:28,469 --> 02:38:27,200
why was this of such importance to the

4103
02:38:30,630 --> 02:38:28,479
fbi

4104
02:38:31,670 --> 02:38:30,640
and the air force and of course project

4105
02:38:35,990 --> 02:38:31,680
blue book

4106
02:38:39,030 --> 02:38:36,000
uh immediately immediately on this case

4107
02:38:41,590 --> 02:38:39,040
it's absolutely fascinating fascinating

4108
02:38:47,870 --> 02:38:41,600
and and there's so much more to it so

4109
02:38:51,830 --> 02:38:49,590
747-228-2051

4110
02:38:52,790 --> 02:38:51,840
and yes i do have the phone lines open

4111
02:38:56,230 --> 02:38:52,800
okay seven

4112
02:38:59,349 --> 02:38:56,240
four seven two two eight two zero

4113
02:39:02,630 --> 02:38:59,359
five one um now uh

4114
02:39:05,590 --> 02:39:02,640
going back there were

4115
02:39:05,990 --> 02:39:05,600
uh uh so many things about this case

4116
02:39:11,270 --> 02:39:06,000
that

4117
02:39:14,469 --> 02:39:11,280
appeared to me uh to be changed

4118
02:39:18,469 --> 02:39:14,479
one of them is this this red symbol

4119
02:39:20,630 --> 02:39:18,479
on the outside of the craft um

4120
02:39:22,389 --> 02:39:20,640
i have seen other drawings and and

4121
02:39:25,590 --> 02:39:22,399
things from around the world

4122
02:39:28,710 --> 02:39:25,600
where it appears that this symbol

4123
02:39:30,070 --> 02:39:28,720
was cited elsewhere around the world the

4124
02:39:33,830 --> 02:39:30,080
thing is this

4125
02:39:35,750 --> 02:39:33,840
let's go back to lonnie's sighting

4126
02:39:38,870 --> 02:39:35,760
lonnie's sighting that symbol was

4127
02:39:40,630 --> 02:39:38,880
changed and the official references from

4128
02:39:43,910 --> 02:39:40,640
that point forward

4129
02:39:46,389 --> 02:39:43,920
was there was a curve on the top

4130
02:39:47,270 --> 02:39:46,399
there were sightings around the world uh

4131
02:39:50,150 --> 02:39:47,280
a couple

4132
02:39:50,790 --> 02:39:50,160
with some drawings that had an inverted

4133
02:39:54,950 --> 02:39:50,800
v

4134
02:39:58,070 --> 02:39:54,960
with uh three lines through it um

4135
02:40:00,790 --> 02:39:58,080
uh some said that it was red

4136
02:40:01,750 --> 02:40:00,800
some not but the sightings were

4137
02:40:04,550 --> 02:40:01,760
confirmed

4138
02:40:05,349 --> 02:40:04,560
uh outside of the united states i find

4139
02:40:09,830 --> 02:40:05,359
that very

4140
02:40:13,030 --> 02:40:09,840
interesting why would the air force

4141
02:40:16,469 --> 02:40:13,040
choose to change this um

4142
02:40:20,870 --> 02:40:16,479
captain holders never really come clown

4143
02:40:25,110 --> 02:40:20,880
come clean is not the right word but uh

4144
02:40:27,190 --> 02:40:25,120
his reasons for changing it um

4145
02:40:29,190 --> 02:40:27,200
he's never said that he did change it by

4146
02:40:32,389 --> 02:40:29,200
the way i don't believe

4147
02:40:35,429 --> 02:40:32,399
um but why was it changed

4148
02:40:37,269 --> 02:40:35,439
now ben's one of ben's conclusions

4149
02:40:39,269 --> 02:40:37,279
and and i tend to agree with this

4150
02:40:42,630 --> 02:40:39,279
because i've done this myself

4151
02:40:45,349 --> 02:40:42,640
is you don't want to have

4152
02:40:46,070 --> 02:40:45,359
copycat sightings out there right

4153
02:40:47,510 --> 02:40:46,080
inverted v

4154
02:40:49,510 --> 02:40:47,520
with three stripes i saw it with

4155
02:40:52,230 --> 02:40:49,520
inverted v with three stripes

4156
02:40:53,510 --> 02:40:52,240
you don't want that that makes a lot of

4157
02:40:56,710 --> 02:40:53,520
sense

4158
02:40:58,230 --> 02:40:56,720
um or was there something else a bit

4159
02:41:01,590 --> 02:40:58,240
nefarious

4160
02:41:02,870 --> 02:41:01,600
about about why it was changed you would

4161
02:41:04,710 --> 02:41:02,880
think that with uh

4162
02:41:07,269 --> 02:41:04,720
roswell that you don't want to change

4163
02:41:09,269 --> 02:41:07,279
your story you just want to keep it the

4164
02:41:10,550 --> 02:41:09,279
same because once it's changed people

4165
02:41:11,590 --> 02:41:10,560
are going to ask why are you changing

4166
02:41:14,950 --> 02:41:11,600
the story

4167
02:41:16,070 --> 02:41:14,960
uh the copycat part of it yeah that

4168
02:41:19,269 --> 02:41:16,080
holds water

4169
02:41:22,309 --> 02:41:19,279
same thing

4170
02:41:25,429 --> 02:41:22,319
i don't want

4171
02:41:28,230 --> 02:41:25,439
everything out there because i

4172
02:41:29,429 --> 02:41:28,240
need if i'm going to get other reports

4173
02:41:31,750 --> 02:41:29,439
or i'm going to hear

4174
02:41:32,790 --> 02:41:31,760
from other i don't want anything tainted

4175
02:41:36,230 --> 02:41:32,800
from something that

4176
02:41:37,670 --> 02:41:36,240
i have said yeah and i've done i've done

4177
02:41:40,309 --> 02:41:37,680
the exact same thing

4178
02:41:41,990 --> 02:41:40,319
and there's there's reasons for that for

4179
02:41:45,030 --> 02:41:42,000
me personally

4180
02:41:47,990 --> 02:41:45,040
could this be the same reasons

4181
02:41:48,389 --> 02:41:48,000
with with captain holder i don't know

4182
02:41:55,910 --> 02:41:48,399
the

4183
02:41:57,510 --> 02:41:55,920
that it could be something

4184
02:41:59,750 --> 02:41:57,520
from an aircraft company that was

4185
02:42:02,710 --> 02:41:59,760
painted on the outside because there

4186
02:42:05,030 --> 02:42:02,720
was dangerous flames coming from the

4187
02:42:08,469 --> 02:42:05,040
bottom of the vehicle and you want this

4188
02:42:11,110 --> 02:42:08,479
indicated on the side i haven't seen

4189
02:42:11,990 --> 02:42:11,120
anything on any aircraft that is even

4190
02:42:14,950 --> 02:42:12,000
close to this kind

4191
02:42:16,309 --> 02:42:14,960
of symbol and we would have seen it

4192
02:42:19,429 --> 02:42:16,319
replicated

4193
02:42:20,309 --> 02:42:19,439
on other aircraft experi experimental or

4194
02:42:23,030 --> 02:42:20,319
otherwise

4195
02:42:23,429 --> 02:42:23,040
it's not outside of the lunar lander

4196
02:42:26,630 --> 02:42:23,439
right

4197
02:42:28,150 --> 02:42:26,640
it i haven't seen it look we you can go

4198
02:42:31,590 --> 02:42:28,160
and look at an aircraft with an

4199
02:42:32,309 --> 02:42:31,600
arrow uh this is a step this is not a

4200
02:42:35,510 --> 02:42:32,319
step

4201
02:42:37,830 --> 02:42:35,520
right uh this is a

4202
02:42:39,190 --> 02:42:37,840
this is a door handle and you see the

4203
02:42:40,870 --> 02:42:39,200
you know and

4204
02:42:42,950 --> 02:42:40,880
instructions how to open it with an

4205
02:42:46,309 --> 02:42:42,960
arrow we see that

4206
02:42:49,429 --> 02:42:46,319
but an inverted v

4207
02:42:50,070 --> 02:42:49,439
with three stripes because of flames

4208
02:42:52,150 --> 02:42:50,080
coming out

4209
02:42:53,110 --> 02:42:52,160
no we don't see that on the back of

4210
02:42:56,230 --> 02:42:53,120
aircraft

4211
02:42:58,230 --> 02:42:56,240
with uh exhaust on the back of an

4212
02:43:00,070 --> 02:42:58,240
aircraft i have looked i've gone and

4213
02:43:03,190 --> 02:43:00,080
looked i've tried to find it

4214
02:43:07,269 --> 02:43:03,200
i can't find it anywhere um on

4215
02:43:10,309 --> 02:43:07,279
our stuff now the other part about this

4216
02:43:13,269 --> 02:43:10,319
where so much focus has been made

4217
02:43:14,230 --> 02:43:13,279
over the years about this being a lunar

4218
02:43:19,830 --> 02:43:14,240
lander

4219
02:43:22,309 --> 02:43:19,840
being tested if that was the case

4220
02:43:24,630 --> 02:43:22,319
lonnie would have said just that he

4221
02:43:25,190 --> 02:43:24,640
would have seen the helicopter dropping

4222
02:43:27,670 --> 02:43:25,200
it

4223
02:43:29,190 --> 02:43:27,680
he would have seen that he would have

4224
02:43:31,790 --> 02:43:29,200
said it

4225
02:43:33,349 --> 02:43:31,800
right there wouldn't have been this

4226
02:43:36,389 --> 02:43:33,359
entirely

4227
02:43:39,110 --> 02:43:36,399
alternative view which is

4228
02:43:39,990 --> 02:43:39,120
an egg-shaped craft with four legs

4229
02:43:43,110 --> 02:43:40,000
coming out

4230
02:43:45,190 --> 02:43:43,120
that is nothing close to anything

4231
02:43:47,590 --> 02:43:45,200
that was being tested out there at that

4232
02:43:48,870 --> 02:43:47,600
time for the lunar missions and apollo

4233
02:43:50,630 --> 02:43:48,880
and the lunar lander

4234
02:43:52,230 --> 02:43:50,640
they don't match at all not even

4235
02:43:56,070 --> 02:43:52,240
remotely um

4236
02:43:58,630 --> 02:43:56,080
you can go back and look at uh

4237
02:44:00,230 --> 02:43:58,640
uh any of the look a bunch of it is

4238
02:44:02,550 --> 02:44:00,240
being posted here

4239
02:44:04,150 --> 02:44:02,560
and i want to thank mark tarana for

4240
02:44:07,110 --> 02:44:04,160
showing film

4241
02:44:07,790 --> 02:44:07,120
of the lunar lander uh being tested now

4242
02:44:11,349 --> 02:44:07,800
this is the

4243
02:44:14,710 --> 02:44:11,359
llrv uh it doesn't have the top half of

4244
02:44:15,590 --> 02:44:14,720
the lunar lander but that is not what

4245
02:44:17,750 --> 02:44:15,600
lonnie

4246
02:44:20,469 --> 02:44:17,760
zamora saw it's not even close it

4247
02:44:24,150 --> 02:44:20,479
doesn't even fit the description

4248
02:44:27,190 --> 02:44:24,160
to go back and and the references

4249
02:44:31,030 --> 02:44:27,200
in the book about this are so clear

4250
02:44:32,550 --> 02:44:31,040
heinek and quintanilla uh hector

4251
02:44:34,870 --> 02:44:32,560
did everything they could about

4252
02:44:36,870 --> 02:44:34,880
contacting every aircraft company

4253
02:44:38,630 --> 02:44:36,880
and and the air force and every

4254
02:44:39,830 --> 02:44:38,640
government body that was doing testing

4255
02:44:43,990 --> 02:44:39,840
out there at the time

4256
02:44:47,429 --> 02:44:44,000
to see what they had because they wanted

4257
02:44:49,510 --> 02:44:47,439
the llrv to be what lonnie had seen they

4258
02:44:51,429 --> 02:44:49,520
could explain it away which is what

4259
02:44:53,910 --> 02:44:51,439
project blue book did

4260
02:44:54,469 --> 02:44:53,920
they explained everything and debunked

4261
02:44:58,230 --> 02:44:54,479
it

4262
02:45:00,389 --> 02:44:58,240
case

4263
02:45:01,429 --> 02:45:00,399
all of the contacts and the letters and

4264
02:45:03,349 --> 02:45:01,439
the responses

4265
02:45:05,510 --> 02:45:03,359
with with all of this as part of the

4266
02:45:07,750 --> 02:45:05,520
blue book uh investigation

4267
02:45:09,030 --> 02:45:07,760
is in the book you can go and check it

4268
02:45:11,030 --> 02:45:09,040
out for yourself

4269
02:45:12,790 --> 02:45:11,040
they did everything that they could they

4270
02:45:14,790 --> 02:45:12,800
needed that aha

4271
02:45:15,830 --> 02:45:14,800
okay so this is what it was and that

4272
02:45:18,950 --> 02:45:15,840
wasn't there

4273
02:45:22,550 --> 02:45:18,960
also the helo aspect of this the

4274
02:45:25,910 --> 02:45:22,560
helicopter aspect lonnie zamora

4275
02:45:26,309 --> 02:45:25,920
or anybody else in in socorro at that

4276
02:45:29,110 --> 02:45:26,319
time

4277
02:45:30,309 --> 02:45:29,120
would have seen a helicopter with the

4278
02:45:32,469 --> 02:45:30,319
llrv

4279
02:45:34,070 --> 02:45:32,479
hanging from it flying around socorro it

4280
02:45:35,910 --> 02:45:34,080
would have been cited by everybody there

4281
02:45:36,630 --> 02:45:35,920
were no other eyewitness accounts like

4282
02:45:38,230 --> 02:45:36,640
this

4283
02:45:40,469 --> 02:45:38,240
so that part of it i think could be

4284
02:45:42,630 --> 02:45:40,479
taken off the table and i think lonnie

4285
02:45:44,150 --> 02:45:42,640
would be honest and say look i saw the

4286
02:45:46,230 --> 02:45:44,160
helo drop it

4287
02:45:47,429 --> 02:45:46,240
uh and then come back and pick it up and

4288
02:45:51,030 --> 02:45:47,439
that's what i saw

4289
02:45:54,070 --> 02:45:51,040
that that is not what the report uh

4290
02:45:56,230 --> 02:45:54,080
said it was an egg-shaped object and he

4291
02:45:57,110 --> 02:45:56,240
thought it was an overturned car i think

4292
02:45:59,510 --> 02:45:57,120
all of this

4293
02:46:01,110 --> 02:45:59,520
when you keep going back to the socorro

4294
02:46:04,710 --> 02:46:01,120
new mexico case

4295
02:46:07,590 --> 02:46:04,720
it is definitely unidentified

4296
02:46:08,389 --> 02:46:07,600
i can't uh draw any other conclusions

4297
02:46:11,750 --> 02:46:08,399
than that

4298
02:46:14,870 --> 02:46:11,760
i can clearly uh deduce what

4299
02:46:17,349 --> 02:46:14,880
what heinek and quintany and others did

4300
02:46:17,990 --> 02:46:17,359
uh which is scratch things off the list

4301
02:46:20,870 --> 02:46:18,000
which is

4302
02:46:21,510 --> 02:46:20,880
was it the llrv that was being tested

4303
02:46:24,389 --> 02:46:21,520
out there

4304
02:46:25,349 --> 02:46:24,399
no and it wasn't ready for testing until

4305
02:46:28,710 --> 02:46:25,359
october

4306
02:46:30,950 --> 02:46:28,720
this was april 24th 1964.

4307
02:46:31,990 --> 02:46:30,960
very important part of this case

4308
02:46:35,110 --> 02:46:32,000
fascinating

4309
02:46:36,389 --> 02:46:35,120
and then we get to um again man i don't

4310
02:46:40,790 --> 02:46:36,399
even know

4311
02:46:43,190 --> 02:46:40,800
if my uh ah

4312
02:46:45,030 --> 02:46:43,200
i'm gonna let me do this again it's

4313
02:46:47,990 --> 02:46:45,040
weird

4314
02:46:48,950 --> 02:46:48,000
uh seven four seven two two eight two

4315
02:46:52,230 --> 02:46:48,960
zero

4316
02:46:55,590 --> 02:46:52,240
five one seven four seven two two eight

4317
02:46:59,429 --> 02:46:55,600
two zero five one and

4318
02:47:01,190 --> 02:46:59,439
i can't tell seven four seven two two

4319
02:47:03,269 --> 02:47:01,200
eight two zero five one

4320
02:47:05,190 --> 02:47:03,279
um normally the phone lines are

4321
02:47:07,349 --> 02:47:05,200
overloaded right now

4322
02:47:08,469 --> 02:47:07,359
and i don't have that so it just makes

4323
02:47:10,790 --> 02:47:08,479
me wonder

4324
02:47:11,670 --> 02:47:10,800
if uh there's something going on all

4325
02:47:16,630 --> 02:47:11,680
right um

4326
02:47:20,070 --> 02:47:16,640
oh back to the humanoids uh

4327
02:47:21,830 --> 02:47:20,080
what lonnie um this goes back to the

4328
02:47:23,990 --> 02:47:21,840
hoax part two as well that there were

4329
02:47:25,750 --> 02:47:24,000
kids from the university out there

4330
02:47:27,190 --> 02:47:25,760
uh new mexico tech out there in the

4331
02:47:30,230 --> 02:47:27,200
desert um

4332
02:47:33,670 --> 02:47:30,240
uh doing a hoax um lonnie

4333
02:47:37,030 --> 02:47:33,680
said specifically uh that

4334
02:47:39,030 --> 02:47:37,040
he saw two humanoids about this tall

4335
02:47:40,150 --> 02:47:39,040
outside of the craft he then said when

4336
02:47:42,790 --> 02:47:40,160
he took a second look

4337
02:47:43,590 --> 02:47:42,800
one of them was now in back of the craft

4338
02:47:46,870 --> 02:47:43,600
um

4339
02:47:50,150 --> 02:47:46,880
and he couldn't get a clear look but uh

4340
02:47:53,830 --> 02:47:50,160
the white overalls coveralls

4341
02:47:54,870 --> 02:47:53,840
was always a a strange description for

4342
02:47:57,190 --> 02:47:54,880
me

4343
02:47:58,710 --> 02:47:57,200
what was it that lonnie saw what was he

4344
02:48:00,870 --> 02:47:58,720
trying to describe

4345
02:48:02,950 --> 02:48:00,880
a one-piece uniform a one-piece

4346
02:48:06,309 --> 02:48:02,960
spacesuit which he never said

4347
02:48:09,910 --> 02:48:06,319
he never went that far but

4348
02:48:11,990 --> 02:48:09,920
one of these figures

4349
02:48:13,110 --> 02:48:12,000
turned and looked at lonnie and saw

4350
02:48:16,710 --> 02:48:13,120
lonnie looking

4351
02:48:18,550 --> 02:48:16,720
at looking at him and at that point

4352
02:48:19,830 --> 02:48:18,560
he thinks that they freaked each other

4353
02:48:23,910 --> 02:48:19,840
out he freaked out

4354
02:48:27,750 --> 02:48:23,920
he runs um the next thing he hears

4355
02:48:31,269 --> 02:48:27,760
is what sounded like a hatch door

4356
02:48:33,750 --> 02:48:31,279
um closing twice like

4357
02:48:35,670 --> 02:48:33,760
and maybe something from the inside like

4358
02:48:39,030 --> 02:48:35,680
it was a double hatch

4359
02:48:42,469 --> 02:48:39,040
a very interesting description there

4360
02:48:43,190 --> 02:48:42,479
but he never described the face even

4361
02:48:46,550 --> 02:48:43,200
though

4362
02:48:47,269 --> 02:48:46,560
they looked at each other i'm telling

4363
02:48:58,230 --> 02:48:47,279
you

4364
02:49:01,269 --> 02:48:58,240
never

4365
02:49:02,950 --> 02:49:01,279
said anything of the sword and i find

4366
02:49:05,110 --> 02:49:02,960
that interesting so what

4367
02:49:06,630 --> 02:49:05,120
were they wearing a helmet how did they

4368
02:49:08,389 --> 02:49:06,640
know that they were looking at each

4369
02:49:09,190 --> 02:49:08,399
other i know he says that it turned and

4370
02:49:12,389 --> 02:49:09,200
looked at him

4371
02:49:12,790 --> 02:49:12,399
but he never described any eyes nothing

4372
02:49:16,070 --> 02:49:12,800
like

4373
02:49:19,429 --> 02:49:16,080
that happened so i find that

4374
02:49:22,550 --> 02:49:19,439
description very very interesting

4375
02:49:25,990 --> 02:49:22,560
what was it about the face that he saw

4376
02:49:28,870 --> 02:49:26,000
and he never ever described anything

4377
02:49:31,110 --> 02:49:28,880
about what the face looked like very

4378
02:49:34,070 --> 02:49:31,120
interesting if it's humanoid you know it

4379
02:49:35,429 --> 02:49:34,080
if it's human right you would know it

4380
02:49:38,469 --> 02:49:35,439
let's go to the phones hi you're live on

4381
02:49:40,870 --> 02:49:38,479
fade to black who's calling

4382
02:49:42,710 --> 02:49:40,880
it's mike hi mike where are you calling

4383
02:49:46,630 --> 02:49:42,720
from

4384
02:49:49,429 --> 02:49:46,640
saskatoon saskatchewan saskatoon

4385
02:49:49,990 --> 02:49:49,439
yeah right out man you know where that

4386
02:49:58,710 --> 02:49:50,000
is

4387
02:49:59,830 --> 02:49:58,720
yeah sorry i was just wondering about

4388
02:50:03,030 --> 02:49:59,840
the aliens

4389
02:50:06,309 --> 02:50:03,040
like you know how they describe them

4390
02:50:11,110 --> 02:50:06,319
they're uh

4391
02:50:17,830 --> 02:50:14,309
is yes

4392
02:50:21,349 --> 02:50:17,840
he said about all the aliens he said

4393
02:50:24,389 --> 02:50:23,429
and and do you know how wide they were

4394
02:50:26,550 --> 02:50:24,399
at all i

4395
02:50:28,230 --> 02:50:26,560
i think he always described them you

4396
02:50:31,349 --> 02:50:28,240
need to turn me down in the background

4397
02:50:34,950 --> 02:50:31,359
but i think he always described them as

4398
02:50:38,070 --> 02:50:34,960
uh being thin now he never went

4399
02:50:39,590 --> 02:50:38,080
full-on gray alien spinely he never

4400
02:50:42,550 --> 02:50:39,600
described him like that

4401
02:50:44,070 --> 02:50:42,560
but he described them as being small he

4402
02:50:47,269 --> 02:50:44,080
never said that they were

4403
02:50:48,309 --> 02:50:47,279
you know fat round no he never described

4404
02:50:50,710 --> 02:50:48,319
him like that

4405
02:50:51,510 --> 02:50:50,720
he said that they were about this tall

4406
02:50:53,269 --> 02:50:51,520
right

4407
02:50:55,990 --> 02:50:53,279
as he was standing there so about four

4408
02:50:59,830 --> 02:50:56,000
feet tall and and wearing white

4409
02:51:03,269 --> 02:50:59,840
coveralls and i just have one more

4410
02:51:06,870 --> 02:51:05,349
uh are you there yeah yeah what's your

4411
02:51:09,590 --> 02:51:06,880
question

4412
02:51:10,070 --> 02:51:09,600
i was just wondering if you know that

4413
02:51:14,550 --> 02:51:10,080
the

4414
02:51:18,309 --> 02:51:14,560
yes you're describing

4415
02:51:21,510 --> 02:51:18,319
uh what's you know when valium thor came

4416
02:51:24,710 --> 02:51:21,520
uh wasn't that around the same time

4417
02:51:28,469 --> 02:51:24,720
uh it was in the early

4418
02:51:30,150 --> 02:51:28,479
60s um i can check right now

4419
02:51:33,830 --> 02:51:30,160
why do you bring that up to valiant

4420
02:51:36,150 --> 02:51:33,840
describe an inverted

4421
02:51:37,110 --> 02:51:36,160
v i wasn't sure about that that's what i

4422
02:51:40,630 --> 02:51:37,120
was wondering about

4423
02:51:44,230 --> 02:51:40,640
if you knew that okay valiant

4424
02:51:48,550 --> 02:51:44,240
thor let me back up here

4425
02:51:55,349 --> 02:51:51,830
uh okay now that would be

4426
02:51:58,389 --> 02:51:55,359
uh i'm in the wrong okay valiant

4427
02:52:02,150 --> 02:51:58,399
thor there is a there's a band

4428
02:52:06,389 --> 02:52:02,160
called valiant thor i didn't know that

4429
02:52:09,429 --> 02:52:06,399
really oh man that is just too funny

4430
02:52:13,429 --> 02:52:09,439
um okay

4431
02:52:18,870 --> 02:52:13,439
let's see let's go with this one

4432
02:52:22,550 --> 02:52:21,990
uh let's see if i can get a date it

4433
02:52:29,030 --> 02:52:22,560
looks

4434
02:52:31,670 --> 02:52:29,040
like oh okay okay 1957.

4435
02:52:33,110 --> 02:52:31,680
and live yeah lived under the pentagon

4436
02:52:37,429 --> 02:52:33,120
for three years

4437
02:52:39,269 --> 02:52:37,439
until 1960. yeah that fits my timeline

4438
02:52:41,349 --> 02:52:39,279
i feel better about that yeah i didn't i

4439
02:52:45,030 --> 02:52:41,359
didn't think it stretched into

4440
02:52:47,030 --> 02:52:45,040
uh 1964. so what do you when

4441
02:52:48,389 --> 02:52:47,040
when you hear about something like this

4442
02:52:50,550 --> 02:52:48,399
mike uh

4443
02:52:52,389 --> 02:52:50,560
what what are your conclusions do you

4444
02:52:56,550 --> 02:52:52,399
think that uh

4445
02:52:59,670 --> 02:52:56,560
uh lonnie zamora actually uh encountered

4446
02:53:02,070 --> 02:52:59,680
uh you know a ufo unidentified object

4447
02:53:05,750 --> 02:53:02,080
not of this earth

4448
02:53:07,590 --> 02:53:05,760
yeah well in my opinion yes

4449
02:53:09,429 --> 02:53:07,600
what do you and why do you think they

4450
02:53:12,070 --> 02:53:09,439
would change

4451
02:53:13,670 --> 02:53:12,080
the description of the inverted triangle

4452
02:53:16,230 --> 02:53:13,680
with three lines

4453
02:53:19,269 --> 02:53:16,240
to something else you know in this case

4454
02:53:22,830 --> 02:53:19,279
it was inverted with i think one line

4455
02:53:25,429 --> 02:53:22,840
and uh a circle over the top of it a

4456
02:53:27,670 --> 02:53:25,439
curve

4457
02:53:29,670 --> 02:53:27,680
it must have some sort of significance

4458
02:53:32,550 --> 02:53:29,680
that they had knowledge from

4459
02:53:34,150 --> 02:53:32,560
from before some other sightings or

4460
02:53:36,870 --> 02:53:34,160
crashes that

4461
02:53:38,469 --> 02:53:36,880
maybe um you know they don't want to

4462
02:53:41,910 --> 02:53:38,479
reveal that tv

4463
02:53:45,110 --> 02:53:41,920
i think you're right about that and the

4464
02:53:48,790 --> 02:53:45,120
the uh the technical aspect

4465
02:53:49,269 --> 02:53:48,800
of this where uh the air force well it

4466
02:53:51,750 --> 02:53:49,279
seemed

4467
02:53:54,389 --> 02:53:51,760
like they wanted it to be the lunar

4468
02:53:55,990 --> 02:53:54,399
lander the llrv that was being tested

4469
02:53:58,790 --> 02:53:56,000
out there so they could just

4470
02:54:01,349 --> 02:53:58,800
debunk this whole case uh just like

4471
02:54:04,230 --> 02:54:01,359
roswell and the crash dummies and

4472
02:54:06,469 --> 02:54:04,240
and project mogul that all fell apart

4473
02:54:08,469 --> 02:54:06,479
because the timing wasn't right for the

4474
02:54:10,870 --> 02:54:08,479
period for 1947

4475
02:54:11,590 --> 02:54:10,880
in roswell well it appears to be the

4476
02:54:14,790 --> 02:54:11,600
same thing

4477
02:54:17,030 --> 02:54:14,800
in 1964 in sacara

4478
02:54:18,309 --> 02:54:17,040
where the lunar lander wasn't ready for

4479
02:54:21,590 --> 02:54:18,319
another five or six

4480
02:54:24,150 --> 02:54:21,600
months to be tested so therefore

4481
02:54:25,750 --> 02:54:24,160
that couldn't be what lonnie had seen

4482
02:54:28,550 --> 02:54:25,760
out in the desert

4483
02:54:29,269 --> 02:54:28,560
um and and when you look at pictures of

4484
02:54:32,710 --> 02:54:29,279
the lunar

4485
02:54:36,230 --> 02:54:32,720
the llrv obviously that's not a

4486
02:54:39,110 --> 02:54:36,240
smooth white egg-shaped craft

4487
02:54:41,590 --> 02:54:39,120
with four legs on it uh what do you make

4488
02:54:45,510 --> 02:54:41,600
of that

4489
02:54:49,429 --> 02:54:45,520
uh yeah i agree with you it doesn't seem

4490
02:54:52,550 --> 02:54:49,439
like you know

4491
02:54:53,429 --> 02:54:52,560
it would be like that i would i don't

4492
02:54:55,429 --> 02:54:53,439
know

4493
02:54:57,190 --> 02:54:55,439
it's it they kind of leave it vague

4494
02:55:00,150 --> 02:54:57,200
don't they yeah that way

4495
02:55:00,630 --> 02:55:00,160
yeah but they do it that way on purpose

4496
02:55:02,950 --> 02:55:00,640
right

4497
02:55:04,070 --> 02:55:02,960
they'd rather have questions there than

4498
02:55:05,670 --> 02:55:04,080
answers but

4499
02:55:07,190 --> 02:55:05,680
when you go back and i want to thank you

4500
02:55:08,070 --> 02:55:07,200
for the phone call mike when you go back

4501
02:55:10,790 --> 02:55:08,080
and you look at

4502
02:55:12,710 --> 02:55:10,800
all of the uh project blue book

4503
02:55:13,110 --> 02:55:12,720
documents and all of the research that

4504
02:55:16,950 --> 02:55:13,120
went

4505
02:55:19,910 --> 02:55:16,960
into this in 1964 clearly

4506
02:55:21,990 --> 02:55:19,920
blue book wasn't able to debunk this and

4507
02:55:25,830 --> 02:55:22,000
i think that they wanted to

4508
02:55:29,590 --> 02:55:25,840
heinek i think came away from this um

4509
02:55:31,670 --> 02:55:29,600
uh convinced that lonnie came across

4510
02:55:32,950 --> 02:55:31,680
a craft that landed out there in the

4511
02:55:35,030 --> 02:55:32,960
desert uh

4512
02:55:36,230 --> 02:55:35,040
don't know if it was from this planet or

4513
02:55:39,269 --> 02:55:36,240
elsewhere

4514
02:55:41,190 --> 02:55:39,279
but lonnie definitely saw something out

4515
02:55:42,230 --> 02:55:41,200
there in the desert and he saw it fly

4516
02:55:44,309 --> 02:55:42,240
away

4517
02:55:45,429 --> 02:55:44,319
and i think heineken was convinced of

4518
02:55:47,030 --> 02:55:45,439
that he couldn't

4519
02:55:50,550 --> 02:55:47,040
he couldn't come up with another

4520
02:55:53,830 --> 02:55:53,190
yeah yeah there you go i agree yep thank

4521
02:55:56,950 --> 02:55:53,840
you mike

4522
02:56:00,150 --> 02:55:56,960
and and be safe up there in canada

4523
02:56:02,150 --> 02:56:00,160
yeah thank you thanks and great show uh

4524
02:56:03,349 --> 02:56:02,160
nice to be part of the feed or not yeah

4525
02:56:07,269 --> 02:56:03,359
thank you exactly

4526
02:56:08,309 --> 02:56:07,279
go beckley teppy mike what else can we

4527
02:56:11,429 --> 02:56:08,319
do

4528
02:56:15,429 --> 02:56:11,439
zamora case not

4529
02:56:16,389 --> 02:56:15,439
much um one of the things that we have

4530
02:56:19,910 --> 02:56:16,399
to stress

4531
02:56:22,950 --> 02:56:19,920
and i i think that we all know

4532
02:56:24,389 --> 02:56:22,960
now that project blue book was out there

4533
02:56:27,110 --> 02:56:24,399
he had to research

4534
02:56:28,389 --> 02:56:27,120
sightings and to collect evidence but

4535
02:56:32,230 --> 02:56:28,399
was also

4536
02:56:33,190 --> 02:56:32,240
uh designed to debunk everything that it

4537
02:56:35,349 --> 02:56:33,200
could

4538
02:56:36,630 --> 02:56:35,359
that's it to come up with another

4539
02:56:39,910 --> 02:56:36,640
explanation

4540
02:56:41,750 --> 02:56:39,920
the lonnie zamora case was the one that

4541
02:56:44,230 --> 02:56:41,760
remained for project blue book

4542
02:56:45,750 --> 02:56:44,240
unidentified there was nothing else for

4543
02:56:49,269 --> 02:56:45,760
them to conclude

4544
02:56:51,510 --> 02:56:49,279
it's a fascinating case the book itself

4545
02:56:53,590 --> 02:56:51,520
uh which is absolutely incredible like i

4546
02:56:56,469 --> 02:56:53,600
said i went back i got about

4547
02:56:58,870 --> 02:56:56,479
uh three quarters of the way through and

4548
02:56:59,910 --> 02:56:58,880
i went back and started over from the

4549
02:57:01,990 --> 02:56:59,920
beginning

4550
02:57:03,349 --> 02:57:02,000
there are so many documents and

4551
02:57:05,429 --> 02:57:03,359
photographs and things with the

4552
02:57:07,429 --> 02:57:05,439
historical record that ben

4553
02:57:08,630 --> 02:57:07,439
and tony have put together over the

4554
02:57:10,790 --> 02:57:08,640
years

4555
02:57:12,870 --> 02:57:10,800
that you just have to sit and read

4556
02:57:15,190 --> 02:57:12,880
through it and read through it again

4557
02:57:15,910 --> 02:57:15,200
it's very simple to get your copy of the

4558
02:57:19,830 --> 02:57:15,920
book

4559
02:57:23,830 --> 02:57:19,840
look ben self published this

4560
02:57:26,870 --> 02:57:23,840
okay this is all on his own dime

4561
02:57:28,830 --> 02:57:26,880
okay to get your copy of the book you

4562
02:57:30,630 --> 02:57:28,840
have to click on the link right there at

4563
02:57:32,550 --> 02:57:30,640
jimmychurchradio.com it'll take you to

4564
02:57:34,950 --> 02:57:32,560
ben's facebook page

4565
02:57:36,550 --> 02:57:34,960
you're not going to amazon for this

4566
02:57:39,510 --> 02:57:36,560
you're not going anywhere

4567
02:57:41,710 --> 02:57:39,520
else you need to go straight to ben and

4568
02:57:43,190 --> 02:57:41,720
reach out to him the links are over at

4569
02:57:45,269 --> 02:57:43,200
jimmychurchradio.com

4570
02:57:47,110 --> 02:57:45,279
go and say hello to ben he's a great

4571
02:57:49,190 --> 02:57:47,120
researcher he's a great guy

4572
02:57:50,870 --> 02:57:49,200
let him know that you listen to the show

4573
02:57:52,950 --> 02:57:50,880
reach out to him and he'll tell you what

4574
02:57:54,230 --> 02:57:52,960
you have to do to get your own copy but

4575
02:57:56,870 --> 02:57:54,240
i can tell you this

4576
02:57:57,429 --> 02:57:56,880
i am going to go through and read it all

4577
02:58:00,469 --> 02:57:57,439
again

4578
02:58:03,670 --> 02:58:00,479
it is absolutely fascinating um

4579
02:58:05,110 --> 02:58:03,680
comprehensive well-researched and all of

4580
02:58:07,990 --> 02:58:05,120
the documents are there

4581
02:58:09,110 --> 02:58:08,000
um i told uh ben and i'll let you go

4582
02:58:11,990 --> 02:58:09,120
with this

4583
02:58:14,870 --> 02:58:12,000
there's a link here going back to i

4584
02:58:17,750 --> 02:58:14,880
think it was unsolved mysteries or

4585
02:58:19,110 --> 02:58:17,760
one of the shows it wasn't sightings it

4586
02:58:22,710 --> 02:58:19,120
was another one

4587
02:58:25,590 --> 02:58:22,720
with a a reenactment of the socorro case

4588
02:58:26,389 --> 02:58:25,600
and and i went back and it's it's really

4589
02:58:29,670 --> 02:58:26,399
really good

4590
02:58:30,230 --> 02:58:29,680
but in this you've got lonnie zamora

4591
02:58:33,830 --> 02:58:30,240
doing an

4592
02:58:36,950 --> 02:58:33,840
interview and friggin captain holder

4593
02:58:38,309 --> 02:58:36,960
of the air force is on camera talking

4594
02:58:41,190 --> 02:58:38,319
about this case

4595
02:58:41,910 --> 02:58:41,200
and you're able to just go wait a minute

4596
02:58:43,750 --> 02:58:41,920
here

4597
02:58:45,349 --> 02:58:43,760
i don't want to give anything away you

4598
02:58:46,150 --> 02:58:45,359
need to go and check it out all for

4599
02:58:49,030 --> 02:58:46,160
yourself

4600
02:58:51,030 --> 02:58:49,040
it's absolutely fascinating now with

4601
02:58:52,309 --> 02:58:51,040
that i want to let everybody know that

4602
02:58:54,070 --> 02:58:52,319
tomorrow night

4603
02:58:56,150 --> 02:58:54,080
for the first time on the show seth

4604
02:58:59,349 --> 02:58:56,160
breedlove is here

4605
02:59:00,469 --> 02:58:59,359
and he's going to announce his new film

4606
02:59:04,230 --> 02:59:00,479
the mothman

4607
02:59:06,790 --> 02:59:04,240
legacy i i the

4608
02:59:07,750 --> 02:59:06,800
the situation with i am so excited i

4609
02:59:11,510 --> 02:59:07,760
have been a fan

4610
02:59:14,630 --> 02:59:11,520
of seth's over the years and all of his

4611
02:59:17,110 --> 02:59:14,640
uh documentaries that he has out with

4612
02:59:19,590 --> 02:59:17,120
small town monsters and of course you

4613
02:59:22,070 --> 02:59:19,600
can go to smalltownmonsters.com

4614
02:59:24,070 --> 02:59:22,080
but seth is going to be here tomorrow

4615
02:59:24,710 --> 02:59:24,080
night and it doesn't get any better than

4616
02:59:27,510 --> 02:59:24,720
that

4617
02:59:29,269 --> 02:59:27,520
and then on wednesday greg house now

4618
02:59:32,790 --> 02:59:29,279
this show with greg house

4619
02:59:34,790 --> 02:59:32,800
has been in the planning now for over

4620
02:59:36,469 --> 02:59:34,800
two months a lot of things have

4621
02:59:39,110 --> 02:59:36,479
transpired around this country

4622
02:59:40,469 --> 02:59:39,120
and greg is always on the scene doing

4623
02:59:42,630 --> 02:59:40,479
things around the country

4624
02:59:43,670 --> 02:59:42,640
we finally got him locked down he's

4625
02:59:45,269 --> 02:59:43,680
going to be with us

4626
02:59:47,030 --> 02:59:45,279
on wednesday night to talk about

4627
02:59:49,990 --> 02:59:47,040
artificial intelligence

4628
02:59:50,469 --> 02:59:50,000
and the singularity thursday night of

4629
02:59:52,870 --> 02:59:50,479
course

4630
02:59:54,150 --> 02:59:52,880
is another fader night with open lines

4631
02:59:56,150 --> 02:59:54,160
all night long

4632
02:59:58,230 --> 02:59:56,160
again i want to thank ben moss for

4633
03:00:00,790 --> 02:59:58,240
coming in tonight what a great show

4634
03:00:03,190 --> 03:00:00,800
and the book and how to get it are right

4635
03:00:05,190 --> 03:00:03,200
there at jimmychurchradio.com

4636
03:00:07,030 --> 03:00:05,200
paid to black's executive producers rita

4637
03:00:09,349 --> 03:00:07,040
kamarian shows produced by hill j

4638
03:00:11,349 --> 03:00:09,359
palm rene dennis and kevin announcers

4639
03:00:14,150 --> 03:00:11,359
are steve harter gene vitello mark t

4640
03:00:15,349 --> 03:00:14,160
kobar webmaster is drew the geek music

4641
03:00:19,030 --> 03:00:15,359
doug aldridge

4642
03:00:21,190 --> 03:00:19,040
intro spaceboy spaceboymusic.com

4643
03:00:23,070 --> 03:00:21,200
beta black is produced by kjcr for the

4644
03:00:24,550 --> 03:00:23,080
game changer network and syndication is

4645
03:00:26,950 --> 03:00:24,560
kgra

4646
03:00:29,269 --> 03:00:26,960
the planet this broadcast owned

4647
03:00:31,349 --> 03:00:29,279
copyrighted 2020 by fade to black and

4648
03:00:33,429 --> 03:00:31,359
the game changer network inc

4649
03:00:35,030 --> 03:00:33,439
it cannot be re-broadcast downloaded

4650
03:00:35,750 --> 03:00:35,040
copied or used anywhere in the known

4651
03:00:37,510 --> 03:00:35,760
universe

4652
03:00:39,349 --> 03:00:37,520
without written permission from fade to

4653
03:00:41,269 --> 03:00:39,359
block of the game changer network

4654
03:00:42,950 --> 03:00:41,279
i'm your host jimmy church i'll see

4655
03:00:43,990 --> 03:00:42,960
everybody tomorrow night right here with

4656
03:00:56,180 --> 03:00:44,000
seth breedlove

4657
03:01:18,830 --> 03:00:56,360
[Applause]